Stock Vs. K&N Drop in filter- Cheapest mod?

[Maxwell1028]

I've always used K&N filters from short ram to drop in. I've usually had MPG gains. But I decided to test the power difference. I also removed the restricted intake pipe that connects to the bottom of the air box and runs through the wheel well. On my initial road test with the K&N I noticed the audible blow-off noise and spool sound, although faint. It definitely pulled stronger and was definitely quicker all the way around. I did three control tests stock, and each time to 0-40 mph it stayed at 4.85ish seconds. Then I did three with the K&N and it averaged. 4.4ish seconds. So in my video I took the 2 fastest runs from each and compared them. Each run was at the exact same place and tempature. They were done days apart. Even on a full tank it was a .05 difference compared to a quarter tank. So with 3 control tests of each setup and seat of the pants feel, I'm going to conclude that adding the K&N drop in filter and removing the intake tube has to be the cheapest mod for a slight performance increase.
https://youtu.be/O0EcGuE8uoQ

 

[RMinNJ]

Hey...I had just removed the snorkel and have always had a K&N drop in. I had also long ago removed the charcoal pack in the air box and ported some of the plastic fins. I think this is a good improvement.
I can't believe I waited so long to remove stupid snorkel.. Its not a night and day difference but it seemed better to me..

I liked it so much I just brought an MPFab and will see how that does.. I can always go my back to my stock box+no snorkel+K&N.

 

[Maxwell1028]

I've went now and done a full 0-60 run. I gathered 2 consistent 0-60 runs when stock and it was averaging about 8.8 per speedometer and GPS to 60. After driving around with the K&N and getting familiar with the new power, I new it was going to be quicker. Boy I was shocked, the new 0-60 my car now is 8.1 seconds. 0.7 faster than stock, from a $45 filter! incredible! I retested and sure enough same time, not a fluke. I'm really impressed with the cars potential to gain power. I'm looking into Trifecta or BNR for tunes, and I cant wait to document the power gains and time increases.

 

[RMinNJ]

Right ..on the stock box I put a K&N filter but I also took out the charcoal pack that was in the top of the airbox. Seeing the long pegs that held the pack in I got my dremmel and with my cutting wheel cut down the pegs and cut away some of the plastic that was above the pack so it was not in the air flow.
With the snorkel removed I think I have the stock box as efficient as it can get..it doesn't seem bad at all..I've seen much worst air intakes on older cars where the inlet is tiny and its right above the engine.

 

[Mobius97]

That's a huge jump in time for just the removal of the stock filter and by adding an aftermarket drop-in. I've seen folks dropping tons of money to get that kind of time knocked off.

Is the OEM filter that restrictive? I don't imagine it could be. Removing the intake pipe to the airbox, with the minuscule weight savings removing it has vs. it capturing cold air into the airbox would seem counter productive.

I would really love to see some back to back dyno pulls to validate. Keep in mind it's not unheard of, intakes making 7-10whp gains with certain vehicles. Would be very cool if this is true for this engine in stock form.

If so you may be onto something!

 

[Maxwell1028]

I'm thinking it's a great combination of the K&N and intake tube removal. The Intake tube is ridiculously restrictive, it makes a bend and goes up to nothing and is covered by the wheel well. Not a lot of air can travel through there. I was looking for a dyno in my area but haven't come across one. I set decent times at the drag strip with this combination, I would like to put back the tube and stock filter and see how much slower my time will be. Also in stock form it ran 8.8 seconds to 0-60MPH and after this little mod it went down to 7.8 seconds to 60MPH

 

[MaD]

To remove the snorkel, do you have to pull the wheel well apart? I know I've seen it here before, just can't find it.

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[RMinNJ]

To remove the snorkel, do you have to pull the wheel well apart? I know I've seen it here before, just can't find it.

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Yes,,, 2 screws on the bottom,...one or 2 on the side, and then 3 push tabs holding the liner
to the inside of the the wheel well. For the tabs I used a small screw driver to wedge the push part out...then a larger screw driver to raise the push part.

I could not pull the tube.. it would not come off the plastic+rubber piece that goes into the air box. I ended cutting the snorkel right at the piece. I then turn it that plastic+rubber piece
out from the engine bay..one bolt hold the plastic barrier down. I then cleaned up where I cut the snorkel and put it back; the air box plugs into it.

 

[Maxwell1028]

Yeah wheel well cover comes off. On the 2017 it was a torx socket, a T-20 . I yanked on the snorkel and broke it off.

 

[Mobius97]

I'm thinking it's a great combination of the K&N and intake tube removal. The Intake tube is ridiculously restrictive, it makes a bend and goes up to nothing and is covered by the wheel well. Not a lot of air can travel through there. I was looking for a dyno in my area but haven't come across one. I set decent times at the drag strip with this combination, I would like to put back the tube and stock filter and see how much slower my time will be. Also in stock form it ran 8.8 seconds to 0-60MPH and after this little mod it went down to 7.8 seconds to 60MPH

I'm sure there are some improvements in throttle response and such. However, I would be hard pressed to believe that by just changing out the air box feed and adding a K&N drop in filter would net you a full second in 0-60 time.

You said you set decent times at the drag-strip with this setup...with improvements over the last. I think you're doing yourself a discredit and perhaps the improved times are honed from your better 1/4 mile driver skills with practice.

As an example, I added a Greddy supercharger to my Lotus Elise a few years back. In stock trim average (bench racer) magazine times are 4.7s 0-60. With another 70bhp added from the s/c, I can't crack the 3's in the 0-60 realm. I'm hovering around 4s, non track tested in my case but fits the average with others on the same setup.

I personally think you became a better driver which is worth more than any hp modifier.

 

[Maxwell1028]

I agree with you on some aspects of that theory. But this car is the easiest to launch. No matter how hard I've been power braking I don't spin tires. So that rules out a lot of driver skill in consistent times. I've been drag racing/racing for about 10 years now and I've adapted pretty well to the "seat of the pants" feeling and it's a night and day with this "mod". I do feel with this car being as slow as it is stock. Doing anything to open up the motor will make gains dramatically until you hit a grip limit with tires, wheelspin, And FWD grip. Also the 2017 might have some differences from the 2012-2016.

 

[JesusTheAgnostic]

Wait, lets go back a minute, why remove the snorkel? Isn't it there to supply fresh air into the intake? I get that it's a really tiny opening but what do you guys have now, is it just pulling air in from the entire fender area? If I remember correctly the little front "grilles" could you drill those out and suck in air from there? I was planning on doing the high beam delete but if this works better.

 

[diazmjd]

I gutted it all and it opened up the overall sound nicely. Much more so than just the downpipe. I could not believe how restrictive the setup was until I got in there. Shoulda snapped some pics but I was pressed for time.

 

[Mobius97]

I agree with you on some aspects of that theory. But this car is the easiest to launch. No matter how hard I've been power braking I don't spin tires. So that rules out a lot of driver skill in consistent times. I've been drag racing/racing for about 10 years now and I've adapted pretty well to the "seat of the pants" feeling and it's a night and day with this "mod". I do feel with this car being as slow as it is stock. Doing anything to open up the motor will make gains dramatically until you hit a grip limit with tires, wheelspin, And FWD grip. Also the 2017 might have some differences from the 2012-2016.

First off, thanks for actually replying in a decent, intelligent manner when someone disagrees with you on the Internet. You know how it is on forums......they can be a cesspool.

You must be doing something right. Driver mod or intake mod, I'd still go with the first. I just don't see how it's doing it. As another example from my own personal experience, my Lotus Evora is running an aftermarket BOE Fab intake. That's been shown on the dyno gaining 20whp over stock, as with my prior example on the Elise, I still can't improve but a few tenths on my 0-60. Maybe Im a bad driver....wouldn't be the first I heard that.

Most intakes I'm seeing for the Sonic 1.4 list minimal gains. Even the K&N Typhoon CIA lists an improvement by adding ~5whp (listed as 7bhp on their website). I dont believe K&Ns drop in filter with a pipe feed improvement/delete would trump their CIA. Although an improvement, dropping a second on 0-60 time improvement? If so folks are getting ripped off by vendors.

Maybe I'm just talking out the side of my mouth and you're right. It hasn't been the first time someone's schooled me!

 

[StuporDave]

Keep in mind a Lotus is already a lesson in efficiency. Lotus has done a great deal in getting the most out of those cars. Chevy just sported up the suspension, slapped on some bigger brakes on a sad little econobox named Aveo and called it a Sonic. There is a lot of room for improvement.


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[Mobius97]

Keep in mind a Lotus is already a lesson in efficiency. Lotus has done a great deal in getting the most out of those cars. Chevy just sported up the suspension, slapped on some bigger brakes on a sad little econobox named Aveo and called it a Sonic. There is a lot of room for improvement.


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And maybe that's what it is right there with the Sonic. Good point!

 

[Maxwell1028]

First off, thanks for actually replying in a decent, intelligent manner when someone disagrees with you on the Internet. You know how it is on forums......they can be a cesspool.

You must be doing something right. Driver mod or intake mod, I'd still go with the first. I just don't see how it's doing it. As another example from my own personal experience, my Lotus Evora is running an aftermarket BOE Fab intake. That's been shown on the dyno gaining 20whp over stock, as with my prior example on the Elise, I still can't improve but a few tenths on my 0-60. Maybe Im a bad driver....wouldn't be the first I heard that.

Most intakes I'm seeing for the Sonic 1.4 list minimal gains. Even the K&N Typhoon CIA lists an improvement by adding ~5whp (listed as 7bhp on their website). I dont believe K&Ns drop in filter with a pipe feed improvement/delete would trump their CIA. Although an improvement, dropping a second on 0-60 time improvement? If so folks are getting ripped off by vendors.

Maybe I'm just talking out the side of my mouth and you're right. It hasn't been the first time someone's schooled me!

I like to have conversations rather than fights. I agree with you. I'm just as shocked as you are. I've been thinking about it and how it's possible.
1. It's Turbocharged: forcing more air in is the turbos job, so to take away a really restrictive part and allow more flow will allow the turbo to spool quicker and suck more air in.
2. Ideal conditions: with the original setup it was just pulling from the wheel well, the tempature is consistent there. But now with the Snorkel out it's pulling air from the engine bay/small hole from wheel well. But during testing it's been 45 degrees Fahrenheit outside. With the engine just being warmed up and not radiating that hot of air into the intake. So it's been pulling a decent amount of cold air at higher volume.
I also agree that the Elise and Evora are already tuned for performance while this is an economy car. I think a big reason why the snorkel is so restrictive is there generic customer. Some person who wants a nice eco car. They don't want to here the turbo spool or blow-off. They would probably think it's broken or annoying. Also possible emission restrictions. I'll edit together a video to show my gains. I like having these chats , thank you!

 

[Mobius97]

Anytime! I enjoy these types of discussions as well. Cheers to your next, better run!

 

[DocS]

Pulling the snorkel was one of the first mods I made. I think I did something a little different from Maxwell1028. I kept the bit that connected the snorkel to the air box cutting the restrictive bend part out. This kept the air box drawing from the wheel well but without the snorkel. I cut out one of the little "grill" things from the fog light but I stopped when I thought about water getting into the back of my fog.

I've been kicking around the idea of constructing a ... ... well basically a ram air that draws from those little faux vents.

 

[zomby woof]

FYI, I did something very similar to my Colorado. The stock snorkel is too small, 48 mm vs 76 for the throttle body.
So after getting a K&N filter, I replaced the stock snorkel with a 3" speaker port.

Stock vs the speaker port

Installed

In the truck

It made a HUGE difference. Going to see if I can do the same to the Sonic.
If not, I'll just leave the snorkel out and open up the hole. We've done enough data logging to see that the intake temps drop right down to ambient once the vehicle is in motion