Turbo Kit , Hold my hand

[journeymansun]

I would like to jump right into the more power thing. Must have watched home improvement to much growing up. “More Power ,Tim”

If one of the aftermarket gurus wanna hold my hand it’s extended !!

Looking for a newbies guide to a complete list of what to do , how ,and what I’d need to successfully install a bigger turbo in my hedgehog while maintaining a relatively stock sound.

-Turbo kit, tune & injectors .

Guys have gone nuts adding all kinds of stuff.

***With a turbo kit and tune does one need or recommend: *****

1)A bigger/better fuel pump ?
2) Air Cleaner ( like to keep stock air box etc) ?
3) Waste gate actuator ?
4) maintain stock exhaust ? ( I don’t want the noise , I’m 40 years old )
5) list of seals and gaskets (preferably with him and aftermarket part numbers)
6) a complete list of what is the minimum requirements for a bigger turbo with tune and injectors , realibility is a must.

Once I have the information I need to continue Im purchasing parts!
Thank you
John

 

[Mr.turner85]

BNR and ZZP both offer upgraded stock turbos I’m pretty sure. As in don’t require a new exhaust manifold since the turbo and manifold are one on our cars. These have proven more powerful but aren’t cheap but should suit your needs as I believe they can still use your stock intake and exhaust. Though I would recommend popping for both in order to get the most out of the upgrade, remember the name of the game is to get air in and out as quickly as possible and both a stock intake and exhaust are extremely restrictive in comparison. I would recommend an intake such as the GM performance parts intake or really any intake for the sonic or at least hardpipe your stock air box and install maybe a K&N or high flow dry filter. As far as the exhaust is concerned maybe doing a down pipe and midpipe such as those offered from BNR and then having an exhaust shop finish the exhaust with a muffler with a silencer may be in your interests. Just a few thoughts

And almost forgot either upgrade your intercooler piping or get an intercooler kit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[greg51]

turbo

If your talking big aftermarket turbo -your on your own as there are very few out there--figure about $4000-5000 . You need exhaust-with custom down pipe, custom exhaust manifold, turbo, custom intercooler pipe, custom tune, bigger injecters, and an upgrade for fuel system. Every person talks about doing it but they never happen WHY ?? Cost. your better off starting with a more popular platform- VW, Cobalt, maybe a Mini, and Ford ST. Big Turbo Sonic on here has one contact him it has been talked about many times--search. g

 

[Big Turbo Sonic]

Unless you have $4,000-$5,000 grand to spend as Greg said, get yourself a BNR tune. Their tunes will really wake your car up. I personally loved their selecta-tune when I had it. If you want additional power after that, they offer an upgraded oem turbo.

Also, that 4,000 to 5,000 grand is assuming you have all of the supporting mods.

 

[whitesmoke]

Listen to these guys

Unless money is no object, you can get pretty much the same power with BNR and a gtx turbo as you can with a bigger turbo. Big turbo will yield more power from 5k up but you will be waiting for it to come. The gtx will spool up almost instantly and lay your ass back in the seat real quick. Believe me because we have the bad fastest 1/4 mile sonic on the planet to date. And its also the heaviest!. Completely stock internal 1.4 and we are making 240 whp. We have raced this car weekly since new in 2014, has 418 full passes on it, gets 42 mpg hwy, and it still has no measurable oil consumption at 60k miles. Remember its 83 cu in, yea you can swing for the fences if you want but it will quickly become a rolling hand grenade, lol, like i said you can make more power up top with a bigger turbo but you wont be able to stand on it for more than a few seconds without an eventual sonic BOOM! Lol. With a streetable tune we run 14.0- 13.80s @ about 100mph, we just recently turned up the wick real far and went 13.47@103 but the motor was talking to me when i got back to the pits, lol, so i doubt we will be doing that anymore. This is my businesses car and we use it to make money, i have to respect it.

 

[Big Turbo Sonic]

Unless money is no object, you can get pretty much the same power with BNR and a gtx turbo as you can with a bigger turbo. Big turbo will yield more power from 5k up but you will be waiting for it to come. The gtx will spool up almost instantly and lay your ass back in the seat real quick. Believe me because we have the bad fastest 1/4 mile sonic on the planet to date. And its also the heaviest!. Completely stock internal 1.4 and we are making 240 whp. We have raced this car weekly since new in 2014, has 418 full passes on it, gets 42 mpg hwy, and it still has no measurable oil consumption at 60k miles. Remember its 83 cu in, yea you can swing for the fences if you want but it will quickly become a rolling hand grenade, lol, like i said you can make more power up top with a bigger turbo but you wont be able to stand on it for more than a few seconds without an eventual sonic BOOM! Lol. With a streetable tune we run 14.0- 13.80s @ about 100mph, we just recently turned up the wick real far and went 13.47@103 but the motor was talking to me when i got back to the pits, lol, so i doubt we will be doing that anymore. This is my businesses car and we use it to make money, i have to respect it.

Not trying to argue with you whitesmoke but your post is biased and contains information that isnt true. State the facts and dont give a sales pitch.

Your first sentence is not accurate, nor is the first part of your second sentence. I make 48 more whp than BNR GTX when you compare it apples to apples, that is 93oct to 93oct. Also I make 200whp at 4,200 rpm and it climbs all the way to 249whp @ 6,500rpm. So to say I have to wait till 5k is not true. I could run alternative fuels like E85, Race Gas, Meth, or NO2 as you have and only then can your compare 240 to whatever number my setup would put out. To compare the GTX to that of an EFR6258 setup (speaking in regards to power), its not even close.

Not sure what you mean by sonic BOOM, but myself and MPFab havent blown up our cars 249whp and ~320whp respectively. I've ran my setup for 2.5 years without detonation. However I will speak lightly of this as I haven't made 418 passes or any for that matter.

The turbo spool up quite a bit later. Comparing dyno graphs 600 rmp later. That is GTX to GT2056

As I said the BNR GTX is a great alternative to a full turbo swap, but if you have the a lot of money, know-how, and resources, a turbo swap will be much more rewarding than a BNR GTX kit.

 

[whitesmoke]

Sorry

Didnt mean to upset THE GODS OF SONIC TURBOS, and i didnt say as much power, i said pretty much, maybe i should have said close to or something else. And im not selling anything, You guys are making more power than us from 4500 to 6500, but we are making more power from 2500 to 4500, and wild torque between 2800 and 4200 which is what you need for drag racing. And we are only running ours between 5000-5500. Thats what launches the car, the hp comes in at the second half of the 1/4 mile. It all depends on what you do with the car. The other thing im interested to know is how you guys use that power because we have a hard time keeping the tires connected to the ground even in 3rd gear with the power we are making on the street, and sometimes on a well prepped track with the best hoosier slicks available. But everybody has their preferences so go for it.

 

[Big Turbo Sonic]

Didnt mean to upset THE GODS OF SONIC TURBOS, and i didnt say as much power, i said pretty much, maybe i should have said close to or something else. And im not selling anything, You guys are making more power than us from 4500 to 6500, but we are making more power from 2500 to 4500, and wild torque between 2800 and 4200 which is what you need for drag racing. And we are only running ours between 5000-5500. Thats what launches the car, the hp comes in at the second half of the 1/4 mile. It all depends on what you do with the car. The other thing im interested to know is how you guys use that power because we have a hard time keeping the tires connected to the ground even in 3rd gear with the power we are making on the street, and sometimes on a well prepped track with the best hoosier slicks available. But everybody has their preferences so go for it.

No god, just didnt appreciate you making statements that were not true about my set up. I know you would not appreciate it either and you would have also commented. You have worked very hard on your car and as have I.

As I said I am making more power than the GTX at 4,200 rpm, not 4,500 as you just stated. And the GTX is not close to my setup unless you consider an additional 48 whp close.

You are making wild torque between 2,400 & 4,200. In fact my peak torque isnt until 4,200 263 ft-lbs. Where the GTX peaks torque at 250 ft-lbs I hit that 600 rpms later.

How do I use the power? Well I dont really need to because I dont drag race. I am on bfgoodrich comp 2's 255 40 17. I spin through 1st and 2nd. I dont know if i'll spin 3rd at all because I dont ever no lift shift and the mz4 being so tall I am already going 65 before I hit 3rd.

And for the record, I'm not comparing my car and yours. I'm comparing the GTX vs my setup. Dont think I am discrediting your setup in any way because you'd probably beat my car in the quarter making 240whp. No I take that back, you would beat me.

 

[whitesmoke]

Would be interesting

It would probably be real close, i would leave on you but you definately would be coming hard on the big end. Lol

 

[journeymansun]

I didn’t realize I was going to need popcorn when I asked that question. I’m game for the better spooling turbo. Not interested in going huge in the turbo that’s why I have a duramax. Thanks for your reply’s. All I need is 2k and the BNR GTX Kit ??

- So the BNR GTX turbo upgrade -turbo , tune , injectors.
Can I run with stock exhaust or stock sounding exhaust ?
Do I need to upgraded waste gate or add a better recirculating valves I’m not opposed to doing so. No annoying blowoff valves.

PM me with pricing !!!! Interested in spending some bonus $$$

Tell me everything I need to make the swap , including gaskets and seals.

With a turbo kit and tune does one need or recommend:

1)A bigger/better fuel pump ?
2) Air Cleaner ( like to keep stock air box etc) ?
3) Waste gate actuator ?
4) maintain stock exhaust ? ( I don’t want the noise , I’m 40 years old )
5) list of seals and gaskets (preferably with stock and aftermarket part numbers)
6) a complete list of what is the minimum requirements.

The 42 mpg your seeing. What speeds are you running to get that mileage ?
-Currently I’m getting 40mpg at the snails pace of 64 mph. At 80-85 I see 30-32mpg.

 

[Blue Moon Sonic]

I didn’t realize I was going to need popcorn when I asked that question. I’m game for the better spooling turbo. Not interested in going huge in the turbo that’s why I have a duramax. Thanks for your reply’s. All I need is 2k and the BNR GTX Kit ??

- So the BNR GTX turbo upgrade -turbo , tune , injectors.
Can I run with stock exhaust or stock sounding exhaust ?
Do I need to upgraded waste gate or add a better recirculating valves I’m not opposed to doing so. No annoying blowoff valves.

PM me with pricing !!!! Interested in spending some bonus $$$

Tell me everything I need to make the swap , including gaskets and seals.

With a turbo kit and tune does one need or recommend:

1)A bigger/better fuel pump ?
2) Air Cleaner ( like to keep stock air box etc) ?
3) Waste gate actuator ?
4) maintain stock exhaust ? ( I don’t want the noise , I’m 40 years old )
5) list of seals and gaskets (preferably with stock and aftermarket part numbers)
6) a complete list of what is the minimum requirements.

The 42 mpg your seeing. What speeds are you running to get that mileage ?
-Currently I’m getting 40mpg at the snails pace of 64 mph. At 80-85 I see 30-32mpg.

I'll PM you the Part numbers since I have everything for the turbo in an invoice from when I replaced my oil cooler a couple weeks back. However, these are the parts that are needed and I'd just go to the dealership for all of this since they tend to stock everything listed besides the BNR WGA.


The following you will need for install:
Oil feed and return lines
Turbo water line seals x2
Exhaust manifold gasket
Manifold studs/nuts
Wastegate Actuator from BNR
1gal of dexcool 50/50

Recommended mods prior to larger turbo:
MPfab Intake
MPfab anaconda DP or BNR DP. The MPfab one is special order now since he no longer makes them to keep in stock.
MPfab or BNR intercooler kit
Ported Intake manifold
BNR throttle body spacer and Cruzetalk PCV fix.

Optional:
catback exhaust
Bypass valve
Bypass valve solenoid Bypass

If you keep the stock catback and install a down pipe. It'll actually give the car a nice subtle growl/burble to it without loads of drone or being loud.

 

[Tesseract_Indeed]

For sound: catless downpipe and/or midpipe will marginally increase volume (hardly noticeable at all), just give it a more aggressive tone and greatly help spool and HP gains from the turbo kit. we have another cat later in the system so keeping the rest stock is perfectly legal and safe and won't give a CEL.
If you REALLY want it quiet, do a Hardpipe the SAB, Snorkel delete and K&N high-flow air filter for intake. Aftermarket intakes tend to make the intake and turbo a good bit louder in the cabin.

Recommended prep:
bypass the bypass solenoid
catless downpipe (BNR or ZZP)
Intercooler kit (BNR, MPFab or ZZP)
MPFab hardcharge pipe (stock charge pipe flexes a lot under high boost)
intake (MPFab or ZZP)
Port the intake manifold
Bosch 42lb injectors (MUST DO)

Here's what I would do:
First, all of the prep work stated above. Then, ZZP offers a bolt-on no bull**** turbo kit for $1k even. So, I would do a ZZP turbo and then ZZP tune immediately afterwards (and tell them you have a ZZP turbo so they account for that in their tuning!)

I have the ZZP Midpipe and catback exhaust and working with them has been second to none. They have been super helpful and responded to my emails and phone calls way quicker than I expected (no more than 36 hour wait). I would use their parts where you can, (intake, tune, turbo and intercooler kit).

If you really want to go all out for this, you could do aftermarket valve springs to make sure you get peak power in high revs. I would wait until after you have the new turbo on there before doing valve springs, just to see if it's really necessary. It may not be needed at all.

Last but not least, if you get a turbo from BNR or ZZP, email them and ask them directly for everything they recommend you do. They are the ones who have built and run them for hours on end, and their name is on the line, so they should give you good advice.

 

[Tesseract_Indeed]

And I forgot to mention, if I were you, I would have some way to monitor the boost you're making among other things just to make sure that nothing is ever acting weird, or if it is it might be more easily diagnoseable. Look at the UltraGuage. It's an awesome little device that plugs into the OBD2 port and measures a ton of things. Oil temp, oil pressure, boost pressure, etc. Rather than a $400 to put in a boost gauge, this is only $80.

link:
UltraGauge OBDII Scan tool & Information Center

 

[journeymansun]

Now we’re getting somewhere! Pretty work ! I like the idea of the hard pipe for the air intake and I will be doing a down pipe and 42/lb hr. Injectors.

-Now if I get information from the vendor that be awesome !!!!

 

[journeymansun]

Ok folks, I’m getting my valentines list together. Maybe I’ll get lucky with some vendors.
- I’m going to get the 2 3/4 piping and silicone hoses for the hard pipe SAB , also sourcing a manifold to cut up. I have to see if I can put the ported manifold and throttle spacer all together and install as one piece. Aftermarket icooler as well. My understanding a tune is needed once you open up the manifold , it’s going to be a prep and build project. If I can get all the parts, info and support the work should go down last weekend of February first weekend of March depending on parts/availability.
- Do the aftermarket tunes greet rid of the car “defueling” when there is loss of traction ?
Recently there’s been snow/ice even with traction control off the car seems to quit when trying to “drive” in the slop. I’ve gone the route of driving it in manual in those instances. Is there another solution ?

 

[journeymansun]

I have a CTS Edge I use for my duramax. I wonder if that would be sufficient to monitor boost/fuel vs a gauge etc. My main concern would be fuel pressure and boost. Not sure how accurate the on board sensors are.

 

[EyeluvSmegma]

I have a CTS Edge I use for my duramax. I wonder if that would be sufficient to monitor boost/fuel vs a gauge etc. My main concern would be fuel pressure and boost. Not sure how accurate the on board sensors are.

I use analog gauges. Easy to install, and in a world of digital, technical, blinky blinky junk..... The analogs are kinda ***yasf.

 

[journeymansun]

-The ZZP kit is a 1446 with a bigger wheel ?
-From what I gather the BNR is a OEM machined exhaust housing with a larger billet inductor wheel ?

Any suggestions on best bet for real world torque ?


Seeing guys doing 22 series turbos , that does say the 1.4 can spin it up. Are the turbos modified in any way ? Number of fins , size materials......
I’ve been looking over at the dodge/abreth forums they are doing kits with Garrett 1752s maybe the cars breathe better than ours. By the sounds of everything happening over here the 1446 has lag I’d imagine the 1752 would be worse.

Have my feelers out, trying to get some real answers.
Just scratching my head.

 

[journeymansun]

Here it goes. -I’m bypassing the bypass valve ,porting my intake ,Cruze talk PCV fix -w- BNR throttle plate, CAI,downpipe, BNR tune & 42lb Bosch injectors. This is stage one of my Sonic build. I may be sneaking a forge waste gate in there with red spring. As well. I’ll be getting the stuff in the mail this afternoon!!! To be installed this weekend or next week!!!!!

 

[mja]

journeymansun - we all have diff opinions but mine is to go with the bnr gtx turbo for an everyday driver. Tons of fun and useable mid range torque. I really enjoy the gtx on 93 pump gas every day and I dont have to wind out the motor to get it. If it's a backup project car, turbo build sounds fun.

Pipes/intake/intercooler, gtx turbo, and E45, easiest way to 260-270 engine hp or about 210-220whp. Same power to weight as a v6 camaro, mustang ecoboost, tuned mazdaspeed3, cobb tuned fiesta st, etc. From experience stock GTI's dont stand a chance. Honestly what more could we ask for from a cheap econobox. If you want more than that you've gota go with a custom turbo setup with pump gas. The fuel pump maxes out on corn at the power levels above.

My manual trans is giving signs it wants to go (again), so I dont push mine hard all the time. Not to mention the brake bias + weight distribution on these cars at high speed totally sucks... a sonic with 300hp on the motor is asking to be bass-ackwards on the street real quick unless driven maturely.

The best bang for the buck by far is an E85 tune. Stock turbo is surpisingly quick with just that.