"Will this void my warrranty?" MASTER THREAD

[ss2000slp]

So if you look through almost any thread on here that has to do with aftermarket parts, someone is asking how it will impact their warranty. Thought I would provide a little backround from what I have seen as a tech at a Chevy/Buick dealer.

Here is the "by the book" definition of what is covered (thanks sx) http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...ge periods.&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_138488678707210

When your car goes to the dealership for a repair, it makes a big difference to the technician working on your car whether the repair is covered under warranty or not. A tech is paid flat rate, which means that he or she gets paid based on a set time for each job. These times vary if the car is under warranty or not. For example (these times are not exact), say a rear main seal is leaking. If a customer is paying for the repair, the flat rate time is 8 hours. So the tech gets paid his hourly rate times 8 hours. The same repair on the same vehicle, if still under warranty, may only pay 5 hours. So it benefits the tech if the repair is not covered by the warranty.

This doesn't mean that they will look for any way possible to not get it covered by the warranty, but if there is something obviously changed on the car that may have caused the fault, you bet your ass that they will bring it to the manager or writer's attention in order to make the most money possible. That being said, it has to directly relate to the fault. For example, say you have a sway bar link making noise. Just because you may have a tune or exhaust does not mean that the link will not be covered (Google Magnuson/Moss act). The links are no way affected by the tune or exhaust, therefore they will be covered. Now say that you installed an aftermarket exhaust, and now you have something rattling against the muffler. Obviously this rattle will not be covered, because it was caused by something you changed, not something installed at the factory. The only way it would be covered would be if the exhaust was purchased and installed at the dealer.

Now thats not to say there is no way around this. Say you blow a speaker and have an aftermarket headunit installed. The speaker will not be covered because of the aftermarket radio. Swap the factory one back in, drive to the dealer, and get the speaker fixed.

It also doesn't hurt to ask. When the brakes started pulsating on my wife's Malibu at 25k, I called my local dealer and asked the service writer if the repair would be covered. She informed me that as long as the brake pads were not severely worn, then the repair would be covered. Don't forget, you do not have to go to your selling dealer. If they are giving you a hard time about covered repairs, go somewhere else. You can go to ANY GM dealership to get warranty repair.Some repairs are up to the service managers discretion. If you are a good customer, they can "goodwill" repairs that may not be covered because your warranty period is up. I actually saw my service manager warranty an engine at 55k (truck had 3yr 36k powertrain warranty) because it was owned by a large company that had all of their trucks regularly serviced with us. I also watched the same sevice manager deny a warranty repair on an expensive PCM replacement, because the vehicle was over its warranty period by 3 weeks, and the customer was a giant pain in the ass.

Hope this clears up some confusion. As a general rule, if you are that concerned about a part voiding part of your warranty, don't install it. Any time you are modifying your vehicle, you take some risk. Do your research, use only high quality parts from reliable, reputable companies, and be nice to the people fixing your vehicles.

 

[T-BONE]

That was very nice.

 

[CheapFuneral]

Great info! I also worked at a gm deal and also saw much of what your talking about! And warranty pay sucks. But we warranty engine problems even with exhaust and intakes as long as they didn't cause it. We even did repairs on stuff with aftermarket super chargers on the 6.2 ls3 under warranty as long as it was a problem not caused by it.

Sticky???

 

[Insanika]

Excellent info! I know we have more techs here, would be a good place for them to chime in. Bookmarked this one for further reference.

 

[Opticon]

Everything he says is true. It's why you should know your tech personally and/or tip him well. Make it so he would feel bad about ratting you out... just remember to make it up to him. He does get paid less for warranty work.

 

[mitdr774]

I have been involved in voiding warranty before. I think there were three of them. Attitude and honesty go a long way with most technicians. I let a lot of things slide when doing warranty work.

some days I miss working in the dealer, most days I do not.

I have voided most of my warranty already. If something breaks as the result of what I have done, I will fix it.

 

[sx sonic]

Great post OP, we need something like this stick-ied

Another bit about warranty, that is well understood by techs, and many experienced car enthusiasts but is not so understood by people new to cars and warranties is that the warranty is not a fine line. It is not some blanket coverage where if you put on a tune (or any mod) the entire warranty is void and you'll have to pay for ANY repair from windows to engines. It's more like chapters of a book and mods will only affect the warranty coverage of that part and anything that may be directly affected by the mod, EVERYTHING else that is unrelated to that mod will be covered.

For example a cat-back exhaust is not going to void your warranty if you go in for a misfire, the engine blows up, the radio quits working, or you have suspension noises since they are not affected by that mod......
A ECM tune on the otherhand if discovered will likely void your coverage for any engine repairs and possibly trans issues since it affects many parameters responsible for how the engine operates. Your radio, suspension and other aspects of the car will still be covered.

=============================================================================================================

Here's a bit I wrote in another thread:
The whole premise of the warranty is to protect the car owner from having to pay for repairs caused by poor quality parts, improper assembly, defective parts, etc. The manufacturer assumes responsibility if the part does not perform as intended and covers the cost of the part and repairs.

If you put on AFTERMARKET EQUIPMENT, it is no longer O.E.M. and they are no longer responsible for that part. There's no effing way they are going to warranty something that ISN'T there problem. They didn't make it and they don't know if it will change the operation of other components, like engine fueling(even if it is GM doesn't know or care, there's lots of crap parts out there).

So logically you're on your own with that aftermarket part at a minimum and possible more of the warranty if the new part screws with other things (like a tune, or aftermarket turbo).

The warranty also doesn't cover improper installation of parts, so if joe schmoe messes up installing a strut or exhaust GM's not gonna cover it. Similarly if you damage the part GM's not gonna cover it, things like a dent in the rim from potholes, burning up your clutch, blowing your engine from not changing the oil, etc won't be covered.

It's alot like dog responsibility. If my dog poops in someones yard or worse yet bite's someone then I'm responsible (me being GM, the dog is the car, and the poop/bite is a part failure). Now if YOUR dog does that I'm sure as sh!t not going to cover the medical bills or pick up the mess because it is no longer my responsibility (you're the car owner, the dogs aftermarket parts, and the poop/bite is a part failure).

There's also this act:Magnuson?Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , which helps protect consumers but it can be a hassle to get somethings covered and I've explained why in a few other threads.

=============================================================================================================
and another

If the modification did not cause the problem then in most cases the issue "IS" covered under warranty.

Something about the Magnusson moss or some such court case made it law.

Now why'd I put the "is" like I did? Because dealers can be shady, money hungry, or not willing to go thru the hassle proving your mod caused fault (conversely they may cover you're errors to keep business=awesome)....... They turn you away and you don't argue it and they either get you to pay for the repair (they make more on customer pay than warranty pay), they get you off their back for a non easy repair, they don't have to worry about proving blame on a failure (rare that company investigates but PITA), or they're idiots and don't want to deal with you.

Then we can get into how power mods typically hint at abusive operating habits which are not a warrantable issue and it gets more complex.

Now factor in that certain mods have more of an influence on component longevity than others (scrappy tune=junk engine, intake could be same, exhaust less detrimental in worst case scenario) and figure certain mods they are automatically, without investigating void your powertrain warranty over.

Now figure all the garbage hillbilly mods they see.

Now figure the technician gets paid book time for work and diagnosing aftermarket equipment that may cause the issues the vehicle is in for is not something he gets paid for........ ie you're costing him money.

Now flip the coin and figure if they don't take care of an issue that may or may not be the fault of aftermarket equipment that you will sully the dealerships name and cost them business.

Or the tech is a go fast junkie and likes what you've done with the car and slips you're "ruined the engine because of xx mods" past corporate and got it covered under warranty.


The list can go on and on. It's as complicated as life....... There's money on the line and NO ONE EVER, wants to pay for a problem that they didn't cause (thankfully there is SOME legal backing forcing entities to cover their mistakes... That and future sales is why there's a warranty).






So to awnser your question I'll give you the obvious....... If they find out you have an ECM modification that modifies a number of basic stock programing parameters THEY WILL VOID YOUR POWERTRAIN WARRANTY. if you visit the official trifecta tune thread in the BNR section if the Vendor forum you can find out why many of us are not worried about using the Trifecta tune and losing our warranty......... And also why the tune ROCKs.

 

[bandita52]

I agree there should be a sticky thread on this

 

[ss2000slp]

I saw your first write up about the warranty SX, that's what prompted me to write this. Glad you copied that post into here.

 

[Lovehanayo]

Great post OP, we need something like this stick-ied

Another bit about warranty, that is well understood by techs, and many experienced car enthusiasts but is not so understood by people new to cars and warranties is that the warranty is not a fine line. It is not some blanket coverage where if you put on a tune (or any mod) the entire warranty is void and you'll have to pay for ANY repair from windows to engines. It's more like chapters of a book and mods will only affect the warranty coverage of that part and anything that may be directly affected by the mod, EVERYTHING else that is unrelated to that mod will be covered.

For example a cat-back exhaust is not going to void your warranty if you go in for a misfire, the engine blows up, the radio quits working, or you have suspension noises since they are not affected by that mod......
A ECM tune on the otherhand if discovered will likely void your coverage for any engine repairs and possibly trans issues since it affects many parameters responsible for how the engine operates. Your radio, suspension and other aspects of the car will still be covered.

=============================================================================================================

Here's a bit I wrote in another thread:
The whole premise of the warranty is to protect the car owner from having to pay for repairs caused by poor quality parts, improper assembly, defective parts, etc. The manufacturer assumes responsibility if the part does not perform as intended and covers the cost of the part and repairs.

If you put on AFTERMARKET EQUIPMENT, it is no longer O.E.M. and they are no longer responsible for that part. There's no effing way they are going to warranty something that ISN'T there problem. They didn't make it and they don't know if it will change the operation of other components, like engine fueling(even if it is GM doesn't know or care, there's lots of crap parts out there).

So logically you're on your own with that aftermarket part at a minimum and possible more of the warranty if the new part screws with other things (like a tune, or aftermarket turbo).

The warranty also doesn't cover improper installation of parts, so if joe schmoe messes up installing a strut or exhaust GM's not gonna cover it. Similarly if you damage the part GM's not gonna cover it, things like a dent in the rim from potholes, burning up your clutch, blowing your engine from not changing the oil, etc won't be covered.

It's alot like dog responsibility. If my dog poops in someones yard or worse yet bite's someone then I'm responsible (me being GM, the dog is the car, and the poop/bite is a part failure). Now if YOUR dog does that I'm sure as sh!t not going to cover the medical bills or pick up the mess because it is no longer my responsibility (you're the car owner, the dogs aftermarket parts, and the poop/bite is a part failure).

There's also this act:Magnuson?Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , which helps protect consumers but it can be a hassle to get somethings covered and I've explained why in a few other threads.

=============================================================================================================
and another

If the modification did not cause the problem then in most cases the issue "IS" covered under warranty.

Something about the Magnusson moss or some such court case made it law.

Now why'd I put the "is" like I did? Because dealers can be shady, money hungry, or not willing to go thru the hassle proving your mod caused fault (conversely they may cover you're errors to keep business=awesome)....... They turn you away and you don't argue it and they either get you to pay for the repair (they make more on customer pay than warranty pay), they get you off their back for a non easy repair, they don't have to worry about proving blame on a failure (rare that company investigates but PITA), or they're idiots and don't want to deal with you.

Then we can get into how power mods typically hint at abusive operating habits which are not a warrantable issue and it gets more complex.

Now factor in that certain mods have more of an influence on component longevity than others (scrappy tune=junk engine, intake could be same, exhaust less detrimental in worst case scenario) and figure certain mods they are automatically, without investigating void your powertrain warranty over.

Now figure all the garbage hillbilly mods they see.

Now figure the technician gets paid book time for work and diagnosing aftermarket equipment that may cause the issues the vehicle is in for is not something he gets paid for........ ie you're costing him money.

Now flip the coin and figure if they don't take care of an issue that may or may not be the fault of aftermarket equipment that you will sully the dealerships name and cost them business.

Or the tech is a go fast junkie and likes what you've done with the car and slips you're "ruined the engine because of xx mods" past corporate and got it covered under warranty.


The list can go on and on. It's as complicated as life....... There's money on the line and NO ONE EVER, wants to pay for a problem that they didn't cause (thankfully there is SOME legal backing forcing entities to cover their mistakes... That and future sales=warranty).






So to awnser your question I'll give you the obvious....... If they find out you have an ECM modification that modifies a number of basic stock programing parameters THEY WILL VOID YOUR POWERTRAIN WARRANTY. if you visit the official trifecta tune thread in the BNR section if the Vendor forum you can find out why many of us are not worried about using the Trifecta tune and losing our warranty......... And also why the tune ROCKs.

That green font is really hard to read!

 

[sx sonic]

I saw your first write up about the warranty SX, that's what prompted me to write this. Glad you copied that post into here.

I'm glad someone finally made one. :Cheers:

That green font is really hard to read!

Thanks for the heads up, I'll change it to something else.

I was trying to break up the monotony of a wall post with color.

 

[Lovehanayo]

I'm glad someone finally made one. :Cheers:



Thanks for the heads up, I'll change it to something else.

I was trying to break up the monotony of a wall post with color.

That would help. Red, purple or a darker color would be better. The line green just makes it difficult and when I select and highlight it to give it contrast, it doesn't make it any easier cuz like green doesn't read well against light blue either.

I really like the tips/info you give though!

 

[d.p]

Techs, if you found a nitrous kit, and the vehicle came in with warranty transmission... Would you void it?

 

[ss2000slp]

I would have to say probably. Like everything else, it comes down to money. Say it pays 6 hours to r&r a transmission, that under perfect conditions might take you 6 hrs. So maybe, you break even on your time. That time does not take into consideration pushing the car in, tearing down the transmission (if needed), hoping the district rep doesn't want to do an investigation, ordering parts, getting the car patially back together so you can push it out, waiting weeks for the parts to come in, pushing the car back in, and finally trying to remember where all of the parts go. So basically it is a losing proposition moneywise, so I would probably look for a way out of it.

 

[ss2000slp]

As myself and others have previously stated there are quite a few factors that will go into determining if something is covered. It can even depend on the mood of the tech working on it. A lot can be overlooked if a) we're not going to lose money, b) the customer isn't a d***, and c) (sounds kind of strange) but how much we "like" the car. If you know the job is going to be a pain in the ass, you're going to have a worse attitude going into it.

 

[CheapFuneral]

Techs, if you found a nitrous kit, and the vehicle came in with warranty transmission... Would you void it?

Yes putting more hp on a trans then it is made to support would void the warranty. Btw I'd also like to note, parts aren't the only way to void your warranty. Don't leave your track slips in the car when you come in for a warranty either.

 

[d.p]

so my perfect light, dead dial, and winner stickers from the track is badddd for the window.
even if the car is 100% stock

ive left several time slips in the car ( but they know a sonic cant run 6.20 in the 1/8th) and even the rental... they laughed at the rental, because they knew i ran something a lot slower than my racecar but way faster than the rental was...

 

[laborsmith]

Yes putting more hp on a trans then it is made to support would void the warranty. Btw I'd also like to note, parts aren't the only way to void your warranty. Don't leave your track slips in the car when you come in for a warranty either.

A common sense suggestion. Unfortunately, real life has proven common sense can not be mandated.

As to the transmission situation, I have not experienced a trans failure on a modified car but I have experienced other system failures and if I have independently assessed that such a failure can be related to a mod, then based on that determination I have not even bothered to go to a dealer to get it repaired.

I suspect many readers of my posts would agree that I have a somewhat paranoid approach to life, and that would be an accurate assessment, and that said, I can not see me demanding a part failure be repaired under warranty if I know or have reason to believe the failure was mod related. Why? Because any accurate or supportable assessment that there is a mod that affects one part of the warranty could bring all warranty into question.

Plus, I am a firm believer in the "if you broke it you own it" adage.

"Nuff said!


Laborsmith

 

[sx sonic]

Here's another bit I posted in another thread. Nothing really new but it might help some people get a little better understanding.

You will quickly learn that warranty repairs are very subjective based on the 1. tech working on your car, 2. The dealer you visit. 3. the type of mod. 4. the complaint you go to the dealer for (eg. rough idle, trans shift, leak window, etc), 5. your attitude 6. even your appearance age.
It is not a cut and dry line.


Certain mods are going to be more noticeable, and/or be more likely to effect drivability.

If the mod is something that poses a risk of causing the issue that makes you visit the dealer than it's more likely to cause the tech to not wish to diagnosis the problem. He's not going to get paid if you come in saying "well my car runs like crap and I don't know why".o and behold you have a Af

The tech's going to confirm the problem and go over the basic diag procedures. But you've got a BOV and unless he's deaf he's gonna hear it, because, well it doesn't sound normal. Lo and behold he finds this aftermarket part on the car. Regardless of how much he knows about turbo cars outside of what the O.E.M. teaches for repairs this tech is seeing some not stock part making funny noises and assume that's the cause of your poor engine operation.

If the tech's an enthusiast than there's a fair chance he knows that turbo cars need a ECM tune to run correctly with a BOV. From there he's either going to assume 1. you're an idiot and not tuned and the BOV is causing your car to run bad or 2. You've tuned the car and probably done other power mods (many of which are apparent after popping the hood).

In either case the tech is likely to say "well those could cause your car to run like crap, there's no way in HE!! I'm going to waste my time rooting around your car trying to fix an issue that is likely caused by your mods, GM won't pay me for it". Then the service writer is going to call you up and tell you the tech found aftermarket equipment and that either 1. you put it back to stock and come back if the issue persists or 2. you pay for the diag and repairs out of pocket (the tech and dealer make more money on customer pay jobs as well).


And this is only the most likely scenario, there are several other outcomes that are possible but this is the most likely.

 

[davecerv]

So I don't have to go to the dealer where I got my sonic from to get a warranty repair? Ohh and also when its time for tire rotation is it better if I take it to a dealer? I wasn't aware that there was a chevy dealer about twelve minutes away... I went to a dealer about 35 minutes away haha.