Engine Heater

[AlaskanDSM]

Hey guys,

I need some guidance on this no Engine Block heater thing for the 1.4L engine.

Since I moved to Alaska, and will travel between Anchorage and Fairbanks, I will hit temperatures as low as -60*F to -70*F (extreme low) and need to make sure that my engine is going to be warm enough to start up in these temperatures.

I know that I can get 75 watt glue on oil pan and transmission pan heaters for the car but this will not be sufficient enough below -10*F as it does not warm the coolant (and therefor the block) near enough. From the information I have seen about the heater that you can get for the 1.4L, it attaches to the bottom of the block somewhere near the oil pan and uses a thermostatic cable that turns on at 0*F.

From what I have gathered looking into that heater, you have to purchase the heater and the cable separately at the dealership and that runs about $200 for the two. I find this to be completely absurd as I bought an engine blocker heater for my Fiance's car last week for $40 from O'reilly's and had it installed in about 20 minutes (not including the rest of the winterization that was done).

Does anyone have the engine heater installed on their vehicle and live in an environment where it gets -40*F to -60*F without windchill? I would love to hear how well it works for you and if you have any other heating elements with the car. I am not thrilled by any means to pay $200 for the heater and cable unless I know for damn sure that it works.

Any other information would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

 

[Papasonic]

The factory OEM heater is considered an oil pan heater. I think as you do that it would be insufficient for applications as cold as you will encounter.
A heater that directly warms the coolant would be the preferred weapon of choice for extreme cold. Also consider a battery warmer to allow sufficient starting current potential.
Years ago I used to use a device called a Thermo Pump engine heater that was installed in the heater hose. It would circulate the coolant throughout the engine and heater core, and the engine would start on the coldest days as if it were a summer day; even the windshield would be partially defrosted prior to even starting the engine. The problem is that I don't know if this product still exists, nor do I know if it would be compatible with the heater valve control systems and electronic thermostats on vehicles such as the Sonic. The other type of block heaters are the ones where a frost plug is removed from the block, and a heating element is installed in it's place. These are very effective as it also heats the coolant and block directly.
Not on topic, but I'm glad I don't have to encounter what you have to deal with temperature wise. I dislike, no I hate winter, and I live in the Midwest where we seldom see temperatures go below -20* F.

 

[AlaskanDSM]

Thanks for the reply Papasonic.

The Factory OEM heater is a confusing bit. It sits at the bottom of the block *above* the oil pan. This to me means that it cannot ever be an oil pan heater because it is not heating the oil in this location. However, it is also not a block heater. That is why I was looking for some feedback from those who may be running this OEM equipment on their vehicle currently as it may or may not be sufficient enough to keep the vehicle warm enough.

I am very aware of the frost plug setup as I just installed that kind of block heater on my Fiance's car along with 75 watt oil and transmission pan heaters. I am a bit ticked that they do not offer this setup with the 1.4L engine in the Sonic. My dad's wife and I both used to have vehicles that utilized the lower heater hose circulating setup. Her's was on an Audi TT and mine was on my Eclipse GSX. Both systems had major issues and had problems more than not with heating the vehicle at those low of temperatures. I wouldn't go that route unless I absolutely had no other choice.

I would be installing 75 Watt glue on oil and transmission pan heaters to the car to supplement the heating but I still need something that heats the block directly. I am looking into the OEM equipment because there is not much else available to use though it is a spendy option so I was hoping to get some feedback first. I wish that there was a frost plug setup for this car. Even the 1.8L engine has some option for a block heater apparently.

I love winter time and I really do not mind the cold (plus I have heated seats now haha). It all feels the same to me below -30* anyways. Plus being in the Midwest, you may get the cold coming off the lakes which is even colder in my opinion as it is a wet cold and not a dry cold.

 

[laborsmith]

I vote go old school with a blanket for the to of the engine bay and a 100 watt incandescent light under. Seems that with the GM accessory could get one through the colder temps. Then for the coldest, true old school and keep the engine running all night.

Laborsmith

 

[Scot]

I think GM's setup relies in conduction through the side of the block to heat up the oil and possibly the coolant. Not the best option, of course. You can also run a heated wrap around your battery to maximize the cold cranking amps. That, along with the OEM "block" heater should get you going below -40C; but I really don't know how much lower.

I can tell you this: GM's "extreme" cold start requirement for all modern vehicles is

-29C and warmer: must start (unassisted) on first attempt within 5 seconds or less;
-40C to -30C: must start "assisted".

"Assisted" is generally defined as using the designated block heater for the vehicle.


Hope this helps.

 

[Papasonic]

Another useful tool for battling the cold is a battery maintainer that keeps the battery fully charged at the optimum float voltage of ~ 13.2 volts.

 

[AlaskanDSM]

I vote go old school with a blanket for the to of the engine bay and a 100 watt incandescent light under. Seems that with the GM accessory could get one through the colder temps. Then for the coldest, true old school and keep the engine running all night.

Laborsmith

Well I will have to keep this in my back pocket for nights that are extremely cold haha. Keeping the car running however would be VERY expensive! Haha.

I think GM's setup relies in conduction through the side of the block to heat up the oil and possibly the coolant. Not the best option, of course. You can also run a heated wrap around your battery to maximize the cold cranking amps. That, along with the OEM "block" heater should get you going below -40C; but I really don't know how much lower.

I can tell you this: GM's "extreme" cold start requirement for all modern vehicles is

-29C and warmer: must start (unassisted) on first attempt within 5 seconds or less;
-40C to -30C: must start "assisted".

"Assisted" is generally defined as using the designated block heater for the vehicle.


Hope this helps.

Thank you for the cold start requirements. -40C is the same as -40F so I hope that it would still start at -60F haha. I think that the fact that the 1.4L engine is small enough that the conduction of the heat MIGHT be enough in conjunction with a standard oil/trans pan heaters.

Never had any worries about the battery if you run a good battery with good cold crank amps. Bust something to keep in mind if the engine won't start/turn over with the setup I have in mind.

Another useful tool for battling the cold is a battery maintainer that keeps the battery fully charged at the optimum float voltage of ~ 13.2 volts.

If I had a garage (unheated) I would totally run something like this. In the neighborhood that I live, I wouldn't want to have anything exposed that I didn't wish to part with unwillingly.


*update*

I just picked up the engine heater today with the brackets but WITHOUT the thermostatic cable. It is a 200Watt heater that attaches to the block. I will try to get some pictures up and when I get it installed. I am attempting to go with an alternative to the OEM cable so that I can have my car plugged in whenever I want and have ALL heaters running. I will keep this thread updated as I go.

 

[Eric Smit]

I wonder if keeping your garage heated with a space heater or two is a viable option.

 

[Scot]

^^^
I've aimed space heaters at the underside of cars to warm them up.

 

[ChrisJ]

I wonder what it would cost to keep a garage @ 0F when it's -60F outside.

Should be the same as keeping a garage 70F when its +10F out.
As in not cheap especially if it's not insulated.

 

[dbarrett231]

I live in Fairbanks. What I recommend is taking it to het winterized my car has the battery tender a heat blanket for the block battery and trans and gms engine block heater never had a problem last winter. I highly recommend a remote start to. The whole winterize the car Is about $400 and a remote start for a good one is 600

 

[AlaskanDSM]

I live in Fairbanks. What I recommend is taking it to het winterized my car has the battery tender a heat blanket for the block battery and trans and gms engine block heater never had a problem last winter. I highly recommend a remote start to. The whole winterize the car Is about $400 and a remote start for a good one is 600

Ahh! That's the kind of news I was looking for!

There is no need for me to pay $400 to get it winterized when my dad and I can do it at his shop off Pegar Rd for a fraction of the cost. I will most likely forgo the battery blanket as I have never used them growing up in Fairbanks but I will be using the OEM heater in addition to oil/trans pan heaters and changing the coolant level to the appropriate mixture.

I have a manual car and remote starts can be a pain with manual cars. Since most of my time will be in Anchorage, I am not all TOO concerned with remote start.

Thank you for the input though as I really appreciate it.

 

[dbarrett231]

Pegar in fairbanks

 

[AlaskanDSM]

Yea, in Fairbanks. My family still lives there. I will probably be making the drive up there in the next couple weeks so that we can do the winterization on my car. Looking for a set of winter/all season tires to run on the car so I can mount and balance them at the same time as well haha.

 

[dbarrett231]

Let me know when you get up here there's a few other Sonics maybe we can get a cruise going

 

[Maddmatts]

After two Winnipeg winters I can confirm the factory heater is good to -40. It never really struggled to start but you can definitely feel the resistance the cold causes in the transmission and steering.

I'd recommend something to block the grill as well. At -25C or lower, this engine begins to fail to maintain it's target coolant temperature at idle or low speeds.