winter gas

[wbjones]

damn I hate winter formulated gas …

bought my Sonic ( 1.4T 6MT ) in Oct .. the first fill-up was for it's first road trip … Asheville to Danville (VIR) … 42.xx going and 37.xx coming back … down hill to get there, up hill coming back … and I was getting (round figures) 37 locally

since cold weather has arrived with the crap fuel, it's all I can do to keep it around 35 locally (my Mom's Fit… base model w/AT) gets 34 - 36 summer … the best I can get with it is 32 now)

road trip to Charlotte yesterday … half the trip is the same as the trip to Danville .. going 38.xx and coming back 36.xx and the 38 wasn't achieved until I got on I 85 over half way there … the hills really hurt

both road trips were on cruse control at 5 over … 70 - 75

now I've got a long trip coming .. to Daytona (600+ mi) … who is most likely to have "good" fuel ? SC, GA, or FL ? … I'm assuming that the farther south (warmer) I go the less the fuel will be so f**ked up

 

[Sonic]

Winter gas does indeed suck.

 

[Toadz]

From where I come from I don't blame the fuel, I blame the extreme cold weather. Dealing with -30* (or just colder air in general) much more fuel is needed to maintain proper AFR. Couple that with needing to let the car warm up for 5-10 mins everyday absolutely kills my MPG. I went from 39-40 average to around 29.5 mpg.

 

[wbjones]

everything I've heard (and experienced for myself) says let the car warm up for 15 - 30 sec. then drive gently …the car will actually warm up quicker than sitting and idling

'course we don't have that kind of cold here in the WNC mountains … but that is still the method that auto engineers suggest

 

[wbjones]

with my pending trip to Daytona (leaving Wed AM ) I wonder where I'll find the better gas …. here in WNC, in upstate SC, coastal SC, GA, or FL ? … or will it all suck ?

 

[The Champ]

everything I've heard (and experienced for myself) says let the car warm up for 15 - 30 sec. then drive gently …the car will actually warm up quicker than sitting and idling

You are absolutely correct.

I live in MN and that's how I've been doing it for decades. By driving prudently, my car will be blowing warm air within a mile or two - even when the air temps dip below zero.

Now when it's brutally cold (I've experienced an air temp of -64 below and wind chills in the -130 degree range), I might consider a 2 or 3 minute warm up.

As to winter gas, it doesn't give as good fuel mileage, but part of that formulation change is to make starting the vehicle easier in winter temps.

 

[wbjones]

is that a consideration now ? I can understand it being a starting problem back in the carburetor days, but with the modern ECU's is it still a starting problem ?

 

[Toadz]

is that a consideration now ? I can understand it being a starting problem back in the carburetor days, but with the modern ECU's is it still a starting problem ?

I'll take whatever helps when it's well below 0. Sad to see so few vehicles come with block heaters.

 

[barrstev]

Cold air is more dense than warm air, which equals greater drag at high speeds.

Cold air in your tires is more dense, and results in decreased tire pressure. Check your tire pressure in the morning, fill your tires with nitrogen to reduce this effect.

Colder fluids at startup also increase friction and reduce efficiency. Get an oil pan heater.

Fuel Economy in Cold Weather

But winter fuel does have slightly lower BTU than summer fuel. 1.7% to be exact. See the EPA report below.
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/pdfs/2876.pdf

So in the end, extra cold lubricants at startup, aerodynamics, longer warmup times, and electrical accessories (window defroster, seat warmers), low tire pressure, have a greater impact than the seasonal fuel blend.

 

[The Champ]

I'll take whatever helps when it's well below 0. Sad to see so few vehicles come with block heaters.

Unless you live in an area with really extreme cold weather, there really is no need for a block heater anymore.

I used to need one when I had carbureted cars up in northern Minnesota (I had to drive 75 miles south just to get to Wisconsin), but haven't seen a need for them in the last 20 years living in Wisconsin and Minnesota.

Even in -30 below (air) temps, it only takes a few minutes of prudent driving to get the car up to operating temps. The last time I was even remotely concerned about my vehicle starting was after an overnight at a hotel near Duluth, MN and the temps dipped to -28 overnight. My concern wasn't the vehicle's ability to start - it was the 7 year old ACD OE battery that was still in use.

Car started right up...

 

[barrstev]

Block heaters and oil pan heaters aren't the same. Although the engine block heats up quickly under load just after startup, the oil does not. An oil pan heater is definitely worthwhile in colder climates.

 

[Toadz]

Unless you live in an area with really extreme cold weather, there really is no need for a block heater anymore.

I used to need one when I had carbureted cars up in northern Minnesota (I had to drive 75 miles south just to get to Wisconsin), but haven't seen a need for them in the last 20 years living in Wisconsin and Minnesota.

Even in -30 below (air) temps, it only takes a few minutes of prudent driving to get the car up to operating temps. The last time I was even remotely concerned about my vehicle starting was after an overnight at a hotel near Duluth, MN and the temps dipped to -28 overnight. My concern wasn't the vehicle's ability to start - it was the 7 year old ACD OE battery that was still in use.

Car started right up...

We've consistently had many nights well below zero and even with my car being brand new it was a bit reluctant to start on a few occasions since I don't have an enclosed space to park it in. Wouldn't mind a block/oil pan heater just to help out on those extra cold nights. I know it makes a hell of a difference in my V8 truck on those -45 degree nights.

 

[The Champ]

I know it makes a hell of a difference in my V8 truck on those -45 degree nights.

Where are you in WI, that you get -45 degree (air temp) nights very often?

I spent 20+ years in Menomonie, WI and don't recall ever having temps that cold. Maybe -30 on rare occassions, but that's about it.

If you're talking wind chills temps - the car can't feel the wind.

 

[wbjones]

update from Daytona trip … left WNC with 1/2 a tank and the MPG readout was at 37.xx

got down the mountain to the first SC station and filled up (miles driven and gal. pumped = 35.xx via calculator)

the rolling hills from there to the eastern side of Columbia KILLED my milage … at 70 - 75 I never got above 35.xx .. as things flattened out on coastal I 95 south, the milage inched up 'til fillip to upper 37's

from there to Daytona (due to traffic and construction) was able to hit 39 - 40 … but speed was much lower (~ 60 - 65) though I did notice that the AC cut 2 - 3 mpg immediately

the trip back (I didn't reset until into my home town) ended up around 36 …

individual fillips (calculator) showed 38 - 39 through FL, GA, and coastal SC …. from upstate SC to WNC it was closer to 35 … steep mountain climb (steep as far as WNC is concerned …LOL)

I reset the onboard readout as I came into my home town, on a long downhill stretch

LOL … it immediately showed 85+ mpg … LOL quickly lowered to my normal 35 - 36