Heat soak on the Sonic?

[Sonic Boomer]

I know there has been a fair amount of inference that the Sonic will suffer the same type of heat soak that the Cruze has; but does anyone have experience to confirm or refute this?

 

[Sonic]

Now that it's getting cold(er) in all regions, it might be hard to heat soak a Sonic. I'm sure it will show up next spring/summer. Hopefully someone has an alternative IC by then. And a front mount is probably NOT going to be a viable option, because of the small size of the stock turbo. Since the turbo is small, you would probably lose too much pressure due to the length of piping to run a front mount.

 

[Sonic Boomer]

Yeah, I figured Heat Soak won't be an issue in the next months, but I was hoping some of the people who have had theirs for awhile might have experiences to share. The guy who did track runs in 105°F comes to mind. I know he took measures to cool things back down between the track runs, but his day to day driving may have revealed issues.

Edit: I forgot, he was testing a Cruze:
http://www.sonicownersforum.com/forum/t192/


...nevermind...

Like you said, we'll have to wait for next summer.

 

[TravsSonic]

Yeah, I figured Heat Soak won't be an issue in the next months, but I was hoping some of the people who have had theirs for awhile might have experiences to share. The guy who did track runs in 105°F comes to mind. I know he took measures to cool things back down between the track runs, but his day to day driving may have revealed issues.

Edit: I forgot, he was testing a Cruze:
http://www.sonicownersforum.com/forum/t192/


...nevermind...

Like you said, we'll have to wait for next summer.

i need to get a spare android phone or tablet set up with the OBD bluetooth connector for under the dash. Then i could just watch the temps and boost on the screen.

For all intensive purposes, i've only noticed heat soak when i made passes back to back to back in the dead heat of the summer. I can't tell a difference in just day to day driving.

 

[LorbeerTLC]

??

Ok, I'll bite:

What do you mean by "Heat Soak" and what kind of problems are people having?

Thanks!

 

[RockTheShazbot]

If I remember right it just refers to the intercooler not properly cooling the air because the turbo is so hot that warmer air is being put through the intercooler which causes a loss in power.

 

[TravsSonic]

as an example, i made 4 passes back to back the night that i ran the 1000'@12.87, everyone was pretty much done for the night so we just went right back to the line everytime.

1st pass cooled off intercooler 1000'@12.87 (finals for import class)
2nd pass missed shift for 3rd (buddy wanted to race me before i left track)
3rd pass 1000'@ 13.2 (another pass against my friend)
4th pass 1000'@ 13.6 (one more try same launch rpm and shift points as other 3 passes)

within 4 passes the car dropped back to the same 1000' times it ran completely stock without a tune. So what is that? about a 40-50hp loss?

 

[theenico]

Has anyone actually taken a close look at the intercooler on their Sonic? It's down low and right up front. When it's not rainy up here, I'll try to get some pictures. I haven't looked at a Cruze's setup, but if it's different, the Sonic may not be as bad with the heat soak.

 

[legion24]

I looked at the one on the sedan version yesterday. I will assume they are both the same to keep production costs down. It is a front mount intercooler and looked like a bar and plate. The end tanks were plastic and the charge pipes look like radiator hoses. It could be fairly easily swapped out with another properly sized more efficient intercooler. I don't see heat soak as a huge problem with normal driving. Even the best intercoolers will get heatsoaked eventually if you hot lap them. A meth kit would help with the problem but I don't like how people use them to tune cars to the limit so I am not a big fan of them.

 

[TravsSonic]

I looked at the one on the sedan version yesterday. I will assume they are both the same to keep production costs down. It is a front mount intercooler and looked like a bar and plate. The end tanks were plastic and the charge pipes look like radiator hoses. It could be fairly easily swapped out with another properly sized more efficient intercooler. I don't see heat soak as a huge problem with normal driving. Even the best intercoolers will get heatsoaked eventually if you hot lap them. A meth kit would help with the problem but I don't like how people use them to tune cars to the limit so I am not a big fan of them.

:iagree: its sandwiched between the radiator and the A/C condensor, unless they went with a completely different design from the cruze which i seriously doubt. One design that works reduces cost.

 

[legion24]

:iagree: its sandwiched between the radiator and the A/C condensor, unless they went with a completely different design from the cruze which i seriously doubt. One design that works reduces cost.

I meant that it is not sandwiched on the sedan version of the turbo sonic. It is a true front mount meaning it is mounted in front of all the other cooling apparatus up there. I will assume it is not sandwiched on the hatch version either which is why I said that both designs were probably the same. I was not referencing the cruze. Just wanted to clarify that.

 

[LorbeerTLC]

If I remember right it just refers to the intercooler not properly cooling the air because the turbo is so hot that warmer air is being put through the intercooler which causes a loss in power.

Ok, I'm not sure I follow.
What's cooling the "intercooler" to cool the air?

 

[Sonic]

Air flow. On Subarus, that hood scoop is functional. On the Sonic, they have it mounted up front with the radiator, so that's where it should get the air flow from.

 

[TravsSonic]

I meant that it is not sandwiched on the sedan version of the turbo sonic. It is a true front mount meaning it is mounted in front of all the other cooling apparatus up there. I will assume it is not sandwiched on the hatch version either which is why I said that both designs were probably the same. I was not referencing the cruze. Just wanted to clarify that.

well take a pic of that thing.. this is an interesting development for the cruze if the sonic is using an intercooler that is actually mounted in the front instead of between the condenser and the radiator. I have yet to see a 1.4 here in central arkansas or in memphis when i went over there last thurs., only 1.8's.

 

[TravsSonic]

Ok, I'm not sure I follow.
What's cooling the "intercooler" to cool the air?

here is the low tech dirty explanation. After the intake air is compressed in the turbo it comes out considerably hotter than it went in, you plumb it through an intercooler that hopefully stays about the same temperature as the outside air. As the hot air passes through it, the heat is transferred to the aluminum fins on the inside of the intercooler, which pass it to the outside of the intercooler. The air traveling over the face of the intercooler sweeps away the hot air and cools the aluminum. Different intercooler designs have different efficiency ratings which is just a % of how much temperature you can expect to be stripped off the air charge.

for example:

outside air is 100 degrees
enters turbo and comes out 200 degrees
enters intercooler and comes out 130 degrees

the 70 degrees it dropped means that the IC is 70% efficient. (70/100=70%) Air to air IC's can never get the air charge under ambient temps unless they are sprayed with a cooling agent.

pretty over simplified, but thats the general idea.

 

[LorbeerTLC]

here is the low tech dirty explanation. After the intake air is compressed in the turbo it comes out considerably hotter than it went in, you plumb it through an intercooler that hopefully stays about the same temperature as the outside air. As the hot air passes through it, the heat is transferred to the aluminum fins on the inside of the intercooler, which pass it to the outside of the intercooler. The air traveling over the face of the intercooler sweeps away the hot air and cools the aluminum. Different intercooler designs have different efficiency ratings which is just a % of how much temperature you can expect to be stripped off the air charge.

for example:

outside air is 100 degrees
enters turbo and comes out 200 degrees
enters intercooler and comes out 130 degrees

the 70 degrees it dropped means that the IC is 70% efficient. (70/100=70%) Air to air IC's can never get the air charge under ambient temps unless they are sprayed with a cooling agent.

pretty over simplified, but thats the general idea.

Ok, so I take it you have two air "intakes".

1) The first intake goes to your engine via the turbocharger, and because of compression it heats and has to go inside an intercooler.

2) This second air intake directs outside air over the outside of the intercooler to take away the heated air that's flowing through the inside of the intercooler. Kind of like a reversed heat exchanger.
Then I take it there is an induction fan on the second air intake in order to keep the cooler air flowing over the intercooler at all times (especially when stuck in hot city traffic)?

 

[TravsSonic]

Ok, so I take it you have two air "intakes".

1) The first intake goes to your engine via the turbocharger, and because of compression it heats and has to go inside an intercooler.

2) This second air intake directs outside air over the outside of the intercooler to take away the heated air that's flowing through the inside of the intercooler. Kind of like a reversed heat exchanger.
Then I take it there is an induction fan on the second air intake in order to keep the cooler air flowing over the intercooler at all times (especially when stuck in hot city traffic)?

you got it

The grill opening where the fresh air comes into the front of the car while driving is your #2. If you lift the hood, the electric fan on the back of the radiator, is what keeps the air flowing over the IC while in traffic. Its also what cools the radiator and the A/C condenser (this is how the cruze is set up and it succkkkkssssss)

Your #1 is the airbox on the passenger side of your engine compartment. Cool fresh air in --> turbo ---> IC --> intake manifold --> engine.

 

[legion24]

well take a pic of that thing.. this is an interesting development for the cruze if the sonic is using an intercooler that is actually mounted in the front instead of between the condenser and the radiator. I have yet to see a 1.4 here in central arkansas or in memphis when i went over there last thurs., only 1.8's.

I should have taken a picture at the dealership but I know turbo cars pretty well and it has a front mount. The core is about 1.5" -2" x 3.5" - 4" x about 24" or so with plastic end tanks.

 

[legion24]

Ok, so I take it you have two air "intakes".

1) The first intake goes to your engine via the turbocharger, and because of compression it heats and has to go inside an intercooler.

2) This second air intake directs outside air over the outside of the intercooler to take away the heated air that's flowing through the inside of the intercooler. Kind of like a reversed heat exchanger.
Then I take it there is an induction fan on the second air intake in order to keep the cooler air flowing over the intercooler at all times (especially when stuck in hot city traffic)?

If your car is turbo take a picture right through the front grill and we will be able to see the intercooler. If you look at the sema pics you can see the intercooler in the front of the white one. It may be an upgraded cooler but clearly in the front as well.

As far as a fan pulling air over the intercooler constantly while in traffic there is absolutely no need for this. The car is not making any boost and therefore there is no need to cool the air coming out of the turbo. It will get heatsoaked from hot air from the radiator but will cool quickly when you are back to speed.

In theory if the charge is cooler at idle it will use more fuel while sitting still. The colder the air the denser the air which requires more fuel. I don't think it is not tuned like this but the theory is correct.

 

[TravsSonic]

I should have taken a picture at the dealership but I know turbo cars pretty well and it has a front mount. The core is about 1.5" -2" x 3.5" - 4" x about 24" or so with plastic end tanks.

haha.. that almost sounds like the dimensions for the bell intercooler i had worked up. 3.5 x 4 x 27