Hub (bolt pattern) Swap Research Thread

[Thaifight-R]

An alternative for those that don't want to go through redrilling wheels, adapters, or redrilling hubs.*
To reiterate, the cons of the above options are:
Redrilling: affects value and resale-ability of wheels by limiting the market to Sonic/Cruze owners.*
Adapters: limits the amount of wheels that can be used because it affects offset.*
Redrilling hubs: requires a person to redrill the brake rotors everytime they need to change it which makes brake replacement/upgrades a bit more tedious.*

Not to say that the above options are bad. In fact, they are very popular options in many car communities in general. Just trying to find more options for us. The more the better right?*

See this thread for more info on the above options including pros.*
http://www.sonicownersforum.com/forum/wheel-tire-discussion/6951-redrill-adapter-thread.html

Anywho, I'm posting this thread to see if we can figure out which cars have similar enough hubs for us to swap over. This would allow us to have the benefits of redrilling hubs (doesn't affect offset and increases wheel options) without limiting the brake rotor options or making a brake swap more tedious. If we're lucky enough, it might even expand the number of brake upgrades for our cars.*

Similar mods to this have been done on other vehicles, from getting hubs from other cars to having an actual aftermarket option.*
People in the S13 240SX community tend to swap their 4x114.3 hubs with 5x114.3 hubs from the S14 SE models and use Z32 300ZX brakes and rotors.
Similarly, quite a few people with older japanese cars seem to have managed to retrofit parts from all sorts of different cars. In fact, it seems like Toyota hub/spindle/coilover swaps are really popular in the old Datsun community. (I.e. 240Z, 510, etc...)

Cobalt 5x114.3 swap:
5x114.3 Conversion and SS/TC Brake Swap - Cobalt SS Network

Celica 5x114.3 swap:
AllTrac.net ? View topic - 5x114.3 front and rear.

240SX 5x114.3 swap:
HOW TO: 5 Lug Conversion - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Z32 300ZX brake conversion for 240SX:
The Definitive 300ZX Brake Swap Paqe

Aftermarket S13 240SX hub conversion kit:
ISIS Performance 5 Lug Hub Conversion - Nissan 240sx 89-94 S13 - Enjuku Racing Parts, LLC

In regards to the Sonic, here is what I found so far:

Front:
So far, it seems like only ACDelco makes the hubs.*
AC Delco model #: FW394
GM model #: 13504045

Haven't been able to find any numbers for these...

Rear:
More Information for SKF BR930836

There seem to be two companies that make the rear hubs. SKF and Timken.*

SKF part #:*BR930836
Timken part #: HA590444

Now for the SKF part, it actually shows some of the specs. I am still trying to understand what everything means, but here's what the page had to say:

SKF specs:
Generation 3
X-Tracker N
ABS Compatible Y
ABS Sensor Cord Included N
Studs Included N
Studs Installed N
Flange Diameter (in) 5.3543
Flange Shape Rectangular
Bolt Circle Diameter A (in) 4.1338
Bolt Circle Diameter B (in) 3.6547

I am fairly sure that Bolt Circle Diameter A refers to bolt pattern since 4.1338inches is about 105mm. (Sound familiar?)
Not sure what the other numbers are though. *Perhaps pattern of the 4 holes that connect to the car, and the middle centerbore diameter?*

I also found out that the Buick Encore has the same bolt pattern as the Sonic. Just in case anyone wants to be a bit different and use OEM wheels that aren't from the Cruze. Haha

I'm thinking that if we found the dimensions for the Sonic hubs, maybe we could do a reverse search and find hubs with similar dimensions?*

What do you all think?

 

[chivalryder]

Why not try to import some hubs from the European market? Don't they have 4x100 bolt patterns on their Aveos? Since it's the exact same car, if someone can get their hands on a set, they should just bolt right in.

 

[Thaifight-R]

Why not try to import some hubs from the European market? Don't they have 4x100 bolt patterns on their Aveos? Since it's the exact same car, if someone can get their hands on a set, they should just bolt right in.

That is another option too, but I hear that it also involves downgrading to smaller brakes, and as far as I'm aware of, there aren't any rear disc brake conversions for those overseas cars.

 

[Dragcamaro]

when going to 4x100 you may be able to keep stock brakes and have the bolt pattern drilled into stock rotors. just a thought. it would kinda suck to have to have your rotors custom drilled when you want to replace them, but i feel like that would still be easier than getting them shipped from somewhere overseas

 

[$ub$onic]

When doing the disc brake conversation I looked at the rear hubs. It could easily have a new pattern drilled in it.

Some hubs have a random holes drilled between the existing lugs. These do not.

 

[Italianjoe1]

I did some pricing for the swap on this platform, biggest problem is the front is a press-bearing, meaning if you only drill the hub, you have to press out the wheel bearing and all that just to change it. It's a lot more work than a bolt-on setup like the rears.

I could offer a front hub as a bolt-on, but it would be the entire knuckle/bearing/hub so I could assemble it on my end and send it ready to pop on your car. Which is quite a bit more expensive.

 

[Dragcamaro]

how much room is behind the hub? would it be enough to add or remove studs without removing the hub itself.

a template could be made to give you an idea on where to drill, but putting the actual studs in the back could be an issue, assuming you're going for a larger bolt pattern it could be easier than stock though.

 

[$ub$onic]

You have to remove the hub from the car anyways. It is no something you should be doing with a hand tool

 

[Italianjoe1]

Yeah you need to center it perfectly, to the hub. It has to be accurate, there's no doing it with a drill. I've done the ones I've modded on a bridgeport mill. Only way to get correct specs, you're dealing with .001" measurements here, it's not a "close enough" deal.

 

[$ub$onic]

1-2 thou sounds about right. It's not exactly the most tight spec in the world, but more then you can do with a hand drill.

Life is so much easier with a vertical mill

 

[Italianjoe1]

Yeah, I used to work in a machine shop, so I have access to everything.

 

[$ub$onic]

Yeah, I used to work in a machine shop, so I have access to everything.

I do work in a shop. But it's a ultra precision shop. No vertical mill in sight.

 

[Italianjoe1]

I do work in a shop. But it's a ultra precision shop. No vertical mill in sight.

Lol there's a couple of CNC centers there too, but I do the simple stuff on the simple equipment.

It's a small custom shop, mainly marine stuff in the area, and we've made some pretty awesome pieces while I was there. The boss is a laid back South African guy and he's a toolmaker by trade so he likes the oddball and precision stuff.

 

[$ub$onic]

I can do both Cnc and manual.

Our shop hits sub micron level of tolerance on a daily bases. Pita