Winter and Summer tires

[Swordsmith]

I recently saw a discussion about "snow" tires which contradicted my old common sense understanding of how they work and who should use them.

I thought the difference between summer, winter, and "all season" tires was in the tread; that a rougher tread would give better traction on slippery roads but a worse ride on dry ones, and that therefore you would ideally want "snow" tires only if you were seeing so much snow so often that it was worth the sacrifice.

I also thought "summer" tires were simply worse traction cheap tires that you could use for a comfy ride to spare the tread on your winter tires... but that what you really wanted to do was upgrade those to "all season" tires because even in summer you could see rain or mud and would want the added traction, it was worth the expense.

If, I assumed, you had all seasons, you were better off than with plain old summers, and nearly as good in occaisional snow conditions as if you had dedicated snow tires.

OK, so that's what I thought was going on. Here's the spin they were talking about though: Tire rubber functions well in a relatively narrow heat band. Summer tires work well when it's hot out, giving better traction and handling even when it's rainy than either snow tires Or "all season". Meanwhile "snow" tires, which they suggest should be called "winter" because "snow" is misleading, perform badly when it is hot out, but work well when the weather is cold. And All Seasons have no functional heat band, and perform really well never, perhaps, according to this source, they should be called "no seasons"

I have the stock wheels, with the stock Hankooks on them, and I have some custom wheels with some all season aftermarket tires. Now the Hankooks were outright bad in cold conditions, but it's possible I've been dissing them unnecessarily, perhaps they work great when it's hot out; I bought my car in the fall and had them off within a month. And I've never owned snow tires, because I've never really seen more than a handful of days of snow each year, at least until this year, so I have no basis for comparison.

Seriously considering scrapping both sets of tires and getting two sets, though, based on this discussion. Any thoughts?

Helps that this year I have seen more cold days and more snow days than I have in probably the last five years combined... so I am thinking more about what it is like. But these guys were saying that the snow part isn't really important, that I'll get bettter performance even on dry days from the winter tires, when it's not hot out.

 

[$ub$onic]

I have never understood the total hate for the oem tires. Ya they suck in bad snow. Well, that was not what they were designed for.

I auto and track x the stock tires last year. I found the limits really quickly on the road course, as was to be expected, but in autox with the proper pressure, they did a good job for what they where.


Another thing to consider is, why worry about performance in winter?

You still can't take a turn as hard as in summer tires. 1) weaker side walls 2) sand and **** still on the roads

 

[Sonic_Boost]

I had stocks last winter it they did..alright. But now having snow tires this year, i will never not have them again. They make such a difference, i've not gotten stuck yet.


All seasons are good if you only see snow one or two times a year. If youre in a place where the entire winter season is snow then i would reccomend snow tires. The sonic is an entirely new beast with them.
Once my stocks need replacing i'll probably go with summer tires or a high performace all season, depending on the reviews on them and then snows/winters in the winter.

 

[Luv2xlr8]

You need to remember that snow tires start to work really well when temperatures start to dip down to freezing mark and if you were to use them in the spring or summer they will wear out quickly. When I say quickly, maybe in about 20,000 to 30,000kms of use.

The first year of winter with the Sonic, I used only winters in the front and the stock rear Hankooks. It worked really well but when summer came, my Hankooks were cracked in between the treads because of the minus 30 temps we had this year. So I switched to all 4 winters and did it make a difference.

In Quebec, Canada it is mandatory to wear winter tires in that province.

 

[Larrymer]

I have never understood the total hate for the oem tires.

Get a good set of sticky rubber and then you'll understand the difference. Find out what the hot autox tire is this year and try them out. You pretty much have to if you want to be competitive (which I'm not sure is possible in a Sonic at this point, anyway).

In Michigan it makes sense to have snows. Other places can get by without them. It's a night and day difference between all seasons and snow tires though. I constantly saw people getting stuck and spinning their wheels in barely any snow and I didn't have a single problem this winter even in multiple inches of snow.

 

[Luv2xlr8]

Larrymer, doesn't it feel like your divining a 4wd car with the winters on? I get off the lights quicker than anyone usually and feel so confident. Couple of my friends drove it in the winter storm we had and said it felt like their Forrester's.

 

[ahtoxa]

Swordsmith,

I've run winter tires, summer tires and all-season tires (not all on the Sonic)

The biggest difference between all three groups isn't so much the tread, but the compound of the rubber.

Summer tires - these tires perform above 45*. The compound is soft and sticky. It works best when heated. Tread design is usually wide with large shoulder blocks to prmote dry grip. Not all summer tires do well in the rain, but some do and do it very well. Those that do well in the rain typically have large water channels in the tread in order to channel the water away from the tire to prevent hydroplaning. Treadlife on summer tires is short - usually 15-20k miles, sometimes less.

Winter tires - Also a soft compound, however a different compound completely from summer tires. These work best at or below freezing. When warm they are like marshmallows with soft tread, and lots of siping. Winter tires are required in certain countries (Norway, for example) during specific winter months. I highly support this and I think that norther US states should adopt that. Tread life is relatively short as well, about 15-20k miles, but since they are used only during one seasons, they will normally last 3-4 years for a person.

Notice that they are called winter tires and not snow tires. That's because they also enhance traction when it's very cold out as compared to all other tires. Even when the ground is dry, during cold weather, the compound is designed to remain more pliable as compared to all-season tires, thus providing much improved traction.

The small siping in the tread provides biting edges when you drive on snow, thus increasing traction. They are also very good in the cold rain and slush.

All-season tires. These are a compromise, that's all. They aren't as good as summer tires in the dry, usually not as good in the rain either, they are moderate to crappy in the snow. So, they are really designed for moderate climates where one doesn't want or need to have a second set of tires.

That said, all season tires aren't bad. They are just a compromise, but they work very well, even in northern climates, aside from the days when it gets either very cold or very snowy. Sometimes they are called no-season tires, because of their compromises.

Their biggest upside to all other types is far superior tread life due to the harder compound.

 

[Maddog2020]

I came into a free set of cheep steel wheels. I plan on putting winter tires on them and switching to the my other wheels/tires in the spring. I want decent Winter tires but don't want to spend too much for them (I'm a cheapskate).

Any recommendations? The wheels are 16". Driving on my Hankooks is a little scary with any snow on the ground.

 

[CjCsonic]

I came into a free set of cheep steel wheels. I plan on putting winter tires on them and switching to the my other wheels/tires in the spring. I want decent Winter tires but don't want to spend too much for them (I'm a cheapskate).

Any recommendations? The wheels are 16". Driving on my Hankooks is a little scary with any snow on the ground.

Check tire shops that sell used tires. I've found blizzaks with 80% tread left for 50 a piece before.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2

 

[Sonic_Boost]

Definitely try craigslist, as sketchy as it may be. Its so worth it. I've gotten 2 sets of almost new snow tires for less than half their price new. General altimax is what i use and theyre awesome. I just got my gf a set of dean wintercat XT's and theyre also very good.

 

[ahtoxa]

I've also used General Altimax winter tires and loved them.

 

[$ub$onic]

Get a good set of sticky rubber and then you'll understand the difference. Find out what the hot autox tire is this year and try them out. You pretty much have to if you want to be competitive (which I'm not sure is possible in a Sonic at this point, anyway).

In Michigan it makes sense to have snows. Other places can get by without them. It's a night and day difference between all seasons and snow tires though. I constantly saw people getting stuck and spinning their wheels in barely any snow and I didn't have a single problem this winter even in multiple inches of snow.

Sonic in stf is actually a pretty completive class.
At this point I do it for fun, win some loose some.

And you took my words out of context, ya a sticker tire is better. No ****. That's not rocket science. But as a general duty all season. They do good. You can't compare a general all season to a different category of tires.

 

[Black Turbo LTZ]

Since my first car all those years ago I've always run a set of winters and a set of summer tires, ya it costs more and the law here in quebec forcing us to run winters is only a few years old but I wouldn't have it any other way. When I was in Massena,NY a few weeks back and there was a lil snow and freezing rain people in town were all in a panic and for me it was a walk in the park, only then did I find out most people ran all seasons. I truly believe if your live in an area where your winter consists of a fair amount of snow from Nov-March winters should be mandatory.

 

[Papasonic]

Here is a GM TechLink article dealing with summer performance tires, and why they should never be used when the weather becomes cold. It appears that the tread material develops cracks when exposed to cold conditions:

Tire Cold Weather Cracking

 

[ahtoxa]

Here is a GM TechLink article dealing with summer performance tires, and why they should never be used when the weather becomes cold. It appears that the tread material develops cracks when exposed to cold conditions:

Tire Cold Weather Cracking

Even aside from that, summer tires act like you're driving on plastic toy wheels if it's below 40*. They become had and slick.

 

[Larrymer]

Larrymer, doesn't it feel like your divining a 4wd car with the winters on? I get off the lights quicker than anyone usually and feel so confident. Couple of my friends drove it in the winter storm we had and said it felt like their Forrester's.

Almost. They're pretty great for snow and cold though for sure.

Sonic in stf is actually a pretty completive class.
At this point I do it for fun, win some loose some.

And you took my words out of context, ya a sticker tire is better. No ****. That's not rocket science. But as a general duty all season. They do good. You can't compare a general all season to a different category of tires.

Nationally or even regionally competitive and I'd be surprised. I haven't kept up with it though but the car is so new that there has probably been little development, and the bolt pattern sucks for good wheel/tire fitment to be easy. I don't imagine we'll see anybody campaigning a winning Sonic within the next few years.

You wanted to know why people hated on the stock tires...because they're economy grade OEM tires. High treadwear, low rolling resistance, so not great for performance. Compared to another all season they may be ok (surely there are better options out there) but you're still not getting much of an improvement until you move to a different performance category.

 

[Scot]

Larrymer, doesn't it feel like your divining a 4wd car with the winters on? I get off the lights quicker than anyone usually and feel so confident. Couple of my friends drove it in the winter storm we had and said it felt like their Forrester's.

Larrymer sold an AWD car with my old snows on it to get his Sonic.

 

[Larrymer]

I never even put them on the car, but they went with it. I've only ever had snows on 2WD cars for some reason. One AWD with all seasons got stuck in my driveway and the ones on the Saab were brand new when I bought it and even then were deadly in the snow, hence buying yours.

 

[Scot]

Damn that ex wife!

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[Luv2xlr8]

Here is a GM TechLink article dealing with summer performance tires, and why they should never be used when the weather becomes cold. It appears that the tread material develops cracks when exposed to cold conditions:

Tire Cold Weather Cracking

Yup, that's what happen to my OEM Hankooks.