timing belt failures
- Thread starter Z71
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jimric
New member
mitdr774
also a dinner prick
Its the hydraulic lash adjusters used in the 1.8. Its like a little bucket that fits over the top of the valve stem and spring. The cam rides on the top of it. The sound you hear is from the lobe hitting the top. It never looses contact, but the profile of the lobe and the top of the lash adjuster results in noise. This is not a new noise to this style of lifter.
Chuck Schick
Member
Would be a good "sticky" when the time comes to change one!
bbaaspencer
New member
When you say dealer, do you mean the owner of the dealership, salesperson, service manager or a porter parking cars in the lot? My local dealership service manager said the 1.4l is chain and the 1.8l is belt.
I read the 1.4 don't need changing @ 60k anymore,but the 1.8 does @97,500 mi.
Its over several engine families and many vehicles.
Pushrod engines however have a much better chain style.
It's not about style, it is about the chain length. The big pushrod American V8s with center mounted cams have very short timing chains so no tensioner or guide rails are needed. You can still get the whole timing chain kit for those big engines for around $ 30.
It all depends on what car/engine it is. On Ferrari 308 you take the whole engine out of the car to change the timing belt and the change interval is 15k miles. I did about three timing belts on my Mazda 626 V6 and they were a major pain to replace. There were two guide pulleys and one tensioner pulley and one hydraulic tensioner. I usually replaced all the pulleys, the water pump behind the belt, the belt tensioner. I also replaced the cam oil seals and the front crank oil seal. These were difficult to replace. The timing belt cover itself was a two piece cover held in place with about 20 bolts. I had to remove the power steering pump pulley and all the drive belts to be able to remove the covers. Also, the oil dipstick tube had to come out and also the crank position sensor.
I am sure Sonic will be a lot easier than my Mazda to change the belt on. On a double overhead cam 4 cylinder engine, you must be careful to line up the timing marks once you remove the old belt, because valve spring tension tends to move the cam sprockets out of position slightly. This is the mistake many make - they do not realign the timing marks once the sprockets move slightly, just install a new belt, which will then be about two teeth off. There are locking tools available to hold the cam sprockets stationary so you do not have to realign the timing marks by turning the cam sprockets with a wrench against the valve spring tension.
You must remove the front harmonic balancer (damper) to replace the timing belt. You should only use a special puller to remove the damper. An air impact wrench works best for removing the cetner pulley bolt. There are special tools available to hold the pulley stationary while removing the bolt with a breaker bar, but those tools are rare and hardly anyone uses them. the bolt can be torqued back to spec torque with an impact using a torque extension. Do not pry on the harmonic balancer with a bar inserted in the spokes. It has a bonded rubber ring and if you damage that, you will destroy the assembly.
My advise is - if you never change a timing belt and do not fully understand the installation details or do not have proper tools, you are better off having someone else do it. An improperly installed timing belt can lead to serious engine damage and poor engine performance.
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Another piece of advice: When you replace the timing belt, always replace all of the pulleys as well. These pulleys have sealed bearings and they dry out in time as they operate in extreme heat. If you spin the pulley by hand after removing the belt and the pulley rattles, this is a sign that the bearing has gone dry and will fail soon. A failed pulley bearing will cause the pulley to seize which will then destroy the timing belt.
Also replace the tensioner pulley bolt per GM service manual instructions. Apparently that bolt is torqued beyond its elastic limit so it permanently stretches. The cost of the bolt is about $4 from your local GM dealer.
I recommend using the OEM replacement belt. It is rather pricey from a GM dealer (about $ 100 ) but definitely a good quality belt.
Also replace the tensioner pulley bolt per GM service manual instructions. Apparently that bolt is torqued beyond its elastic limit so it permanently stretches. The cost of the bolt is about $4 from your local GM dealer.
I recommend using the OEM replacement belt. It is rather pricey from a GM dealer (about $ 100 ) but definitely a good quality belt.
JTee2017
Well-known member
How difficult was it to change the belt? I know about the pulleys and bolt needing replacing at the same time. Good advice.
Did you buy one of those kits that lock the cam shafts in place while changing the belt? Find any Youtube or online pictorial step-by-step to help with the timing belt change?
Yes 97,500 miles change timing belt and its pulleys all can be purchased in a timing kit.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...04757,engine,timing+belt+&+component+kit,5759
I would avoid the cheap ones and stick with AC DELCO or Gates
I have not changed the belt (I am at 84k miles now) but I bought a new belt and pulleys and tensioner pulley bolt from my local GM dealer and I will change the belt around 90k miles. I also bought a cam sprocket locking tool for about $ 20 from eBay (Got the European version made of plastic).
It looks like one needs to remove the front engine mount to remove and replace the timing belt. This is no big deal, but you must support the engine with a jack by using a piece of plywood on top of jack saddle and jacking on the engine oil pan, just enough to relieve load on the front engine mount so you can remove the mount bolt. Dealerships often use a special bar on top of the engine to support the engine in order to remove the engine mount. You do not need this expensive tool, a jack under the oil pan will do, but always use a substantial piece of plywood to avoid damaging the pan and jack just enough to relieve load on the engine mount bolt.
Well,
I just replaced my timing belt, idler pulley, belt tensioner, valve cover gasket, water pump, serpentine belt, and serpentine belt tensioner on my 2013 Sonic LT at 94k miles.
Do not even attempt timing belt change on this car without a cam sprocket locking tool! The reason is the timing marks are about the stupidest I have ever seen on any car to date. In fact the two timing marks on the cam sprockets, when in the correct position, do not line up and they are not supposed to according to the official shop manual! GM dealers use a special cam sprocket locking tool with a little window where the left sprocket timing mark shows when the right sprocket mark is exactly at 9 o'clock position. And the left sprocket mark will be at roughly at 2:30 o'clock position instead of expected 3 o'clock position!
If you are aware of this as I was (had a copy of belt replacement procedure from the official GM service manual, but i did not have their locking tool), and you use a decent cam sprocket locking tool it is hard to screw up the job. One word of advice: even with the belt tensioner pin inserted and tensioner in the locked position, slipping the new belt on is not easy. I found it the easiest to slip the belt over everything except the idler pulley and then pull the belt over that. It worked much better than trying to slip the belt over the tensioner pulley. Even if your cam sprockets are locked, watch the crankshaft sprocket, because it is likely to move out of its correct timing position while installing the new belt. Always rotate the engine by the harmonic balancer pulley bolt by hand before reassembling everything. (Make sure you take out the spark plugs to make the rotation much easier). Two rotations of the crankshaft are required for the 360 degree rotation of the cam sprockets. Verify that all timing marks line up as described above. You will see how much offset you need between the cam sprocket timing marks when you first line up the marks and then lock the sprockets.
I think the worst component to replace was the water pump due to stupid torx head bolts they use and lack of room to work. Also, the lower splash shield is hard to remove because there is one hidden push pin which is hard to get to. Maybe they have special wrenches in Europe which will enable one to get to these torx head bolts from the side but I could not find such a tool.
They use an external torx head bolt on the harmonic balancer so you will need an E18 socket to remove the bolt. The harmonic balancer and its pulley are combined into one unit, and it comes right off and does not require any puller tool like most cars.
The old timing belt still looked good after 94k miles. The tensioner pulley was still spinning smoothly but the other idler pulley bearing was getting dry and grease was seeping from its bearing.
The car runs great and I hope I will get another 90K miles out of it before something big fails.
I just replaced my timing belt, idler pulley, belt tensioner, valve cover gasket, water pump, serpentine belt, and serpentine belt tensioner on my 2013 Sonic LT at 94k miles.
Do not even attempt timing belt change on this car without a cam sprocket locking tool! The reason is the timing marks are about the stupidest I have ever seen on any car to date. In fact the two timing marks on the cam sprockets, when in the correct position, do not line up and they are not supposed to according to the official shop manual! GM dealers use a special cam sprocket locking tool with a little window where the left sprocket timing mark shows when the right sprocket mark is exactly at 9 o'clock position. And the left sprocket mark will be at roughly at 2:30 o'clock position instead of expected 3 o'clock position!
If you are aware of this as I was (had a copy of belt replacement procedure from the official GM service manual, but i did not have their locking tool), and you use a decent cam sprocket locking tool it is hard to screw up the job. One word of advice: even with the belt tensioner pin inserted and tensioner in the locked position, slipping the new belt on is not easy. I found it the easiest to slip the belt over everything except the idler pulley and then pull the belt over that. It worked much better than trying to slip the belt over the tensioner pulley. Even if your cam sprockets are locked, watch the crankshaft sprocket, because it is likely to move out of its correct timing position while installing the new belt. Always rotate the engine by the harmonic balancer pulley bolt by hand before reassembling everything. (Make sure you take out the spark plugs to make the rotation much easier). Two rotations of the crankshaft are required for the 360 degree rotation of the cam sprockets. Verify that all timing marks line up as described above. You will see how much offset you need between the cam sprocket timing marks when you first line up the marks and then lock the sprockets.
I think the worst component to replace was the water pump due to stupid torx head bolts they use and lack of room to work. Also, the lower splash shield is hard to remove because there is one hidden push pin which is hard to get to. Maybe they have special wrenches in Europe which will enable one to get to these torx head bolts from the side but I could not find such a tool.
They use an external torx head bolt on the harmonic balancer so you will need an E18 socket to remove the bolt. The harmonic balancer and its pulley are combined into one unit, and it comes right off and does not require any puller tool like most cars.
The old timing belt still looked good after 94k miles. The tensioner pulley was still spinning smoothly but the other idler pulley bearing was getting dry and grease was seeping from its bearing.
The car runs great and I hope I will get another 90K miles out of it before something big fails.
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I did two belts on mine... one at 120k and the other at 215k give or take. Both times it was pretty simple and as stated before be sure to lock the cams and watch your crank as you let the belt tension up as it likes to move and I could never get the tool to lock it in place. The cam tools are also available from the UK for the Opels and I believe I saved about $50 by ordering and paying overseas shipping but that was a few years ago.
You might as well do the water pump while you're at it, just be prepared for that pulley to be a bear to get off due to space.
You might as well do the water pump while you're at it, just be prepared for that pulley to be a bear to get off due to space.
JTee2017
Well-known member
Wow. . good to hear that the Sonic went 215K . Mostly highway miles or stop/go?
And agree. . do the water pump, both belts tensioners etc at the same time.
Have you had any other replacements like the radiator? Other than the usual t-stat and housing that is.
Mostly highway and a lot of idling. The car is my mobile office. It's still running fine but about to get passed down to a friend's 16 yo twins. I am in the process of getting a 2016 1.8L hatchback with 40k on it that I'm hoping to get another 200k+ out of.
No major work but I've done a lot of work to it myself including a few thermostats, electric fan, a few sets of brakes, a couple sets of rear shocks and one set of front struts and control arms, a few sets of end links, and some odds and ends but nothing really major that a dealership or mechanic had to do.
No major work but I've done a lot of work to it myself including a few thermostats, electric fan, a few sets of brakes, a couple sets of rear shocks and one set of front struts and control arms, a few sets of end links, and some odds and ends but nothing really major that a dealership or mechanic had to do.