Wideband Oxygen Sensor

[Preloader]

I'm thinking of ordering the ZZP downpipe with an extra thread-o-let for a future wideband sensor. As you know, the narrowband sensor is only accurate at close to 14.7 AFR, which is basically idle and moderate driving (economy driving).

Under WOT acceleration, when peak hp is desired the AFR hits levels that the narrowband is not sensitive enough to read, and the ECU goes into open-loop and delivers fuel/timing based on pre-prescribed program maps and readings from sensors like temp, TPS and knock.

So even data-logging hard runs isn't capturing very useful data for adjustments to accommodate upgrade mods. While tuners like BNR/Trifecta can tune based on dyno runs with different mods and adjust your tune, accurate AFR readings from real-world WOT (qtr mile runs FTW), could allow you to get REALLY dialed-in.

I'm wondering if a wideband were to be swapped in for the stock narrowband, could the ECU be programmed to still operate as normal, but allow for wideband logging with EZflash?

And if not, could the addition of a wideband sensor while leaving the stock one in place, allow a way to use it's information into the feedback loop without a piggyback?

 

[Eric Smit]

yes, it would be tuneable.


-Eric Smit

 

[alteredego]

Its been shown that the OEM primary o2 isn't a wideband?

I'd be very surprised if it wasn't.

- Drew

 

[Preloader]

Its been shown that the OEM primary o2 isn't a wideband?

I'd be very surprised if it wasn't.

- Drew

SPOILER ALERT:


It is not.

 

[Eric Smit]

SPOILER ALERT:


It is not.

Thank god you said spoiler alert.


-Eric Smit

 

[Preloader]

I didn't want to ruin the ending.


So it is your understanding that a wideband could be used in lieu of the stock o2 and it could be tuned for normal operation but allow for wideband AFR data-logging?

 

[Eric Smit]

Yes.


-Eric Smit

 

[ThatTmoGuy]

I'm pretty sure you could get a Trifecta tune for just about any mod you could hook up. As long as its not as powerful as the stock air box

 

[alteredego]

SPOILER ALERT:


It is not.

Yeah, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

- Drew

 

[Eric Smit]

Yeah, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

- Drew

Makes the only sense that GM cares about; narrow band is marginally cheaper.

Unfortunately, I would have gladly paid even 50 dollars more for my car if they would have used a wide band and end links that weren't plastic. Maybe I'm alone.


-Eric Smit

 

[jeremiah.wells]

i saw ZZP with an AEM a/f ratio gauge in their dual gauge prototype, but not sure if it was actually being used by the ECM.

 

[Eric Smit]

I think this thread needs to be revived.

 

[sx sonic]

I'd emailed vince about replacing the standard O2 for a wideband O2.

His response was that he did not believe it would be of much benefit even during WOT. He said they get the A/F pretty darn close at WOT with the current O2.

Just my 2cents. If I get on my laptop today I'll quote his response

 

[Eric Smit]

sounds good.

 

[Preloader]

I've been looking at buying one recently. I've got the extra thread-o-let in my downpipe.
I believe the data-logs can't capture AFR accurately at WOT. Once the ECU goes into open loop, the timing and mixture are controlled by a prediction table and the knock sensor.

I don't really feel the need to run entirely on the wideband. But I think it's the only way to data-log what's really happening to the fuel ratio in full enrich mode a.k.a. Qtr mile runs.

I'm sure Vince would prefer to update based on more complete data.

 

[Preloader]

This is what Vince recently had to say about it:

There are unused 0-5v inputs on the ECM that could be used for this, but we don't have any publications for how to do this. Most wideband controllers can be logged to a pc independently of the obd data. Datalog with ez flash, log your wide and to the pc, send both to us, we can correlate the data
:banana:

 

[Eric Smit]

word.

 

[sx sonic]

So i finally got access to a computer and internet. heres my dialougue with Vince

ME- "4. Would it be possible to have a tune setup where the ECM would work with a wideband O2 sensor instead of the factory narrow band? I was thinking if it would work with the Factory ECM (or with a piggyback) that you would be able to run more ideal fueling and timing at WOT."

Vince-
"4. Maybe - most wideband controllers output a 0-5v signal which could be tied to an unused input at the ECM. However, the engineering effort required to make this work would not likely offset the benefits that could be realized. Our experience is a well-tuned car can perform just fine with the narrowband sensors."


Preloader hope this doesnt come off as an argumentive response to your last post. I've been meaning to post this for a bit now.

 

[Preloader]

Not at all. All info on the matter is helpful.

Vince went a little further and said (in my own paraphrasing) that a wideband could be used in tandem with the stock O2 (2nd bung in downpipe) purely for logging data.
He's done it on a Sonic. The data from the wideband could be logged and correlated to the data from a simultaneous EZflash log, and could be used by him for tune tweaks and and adjustments.

The wideband and controller are approx $200 and is relatively simple to set-up, and could also support an in cab AFR gauge.

 

[sx sonic]

Win win