Racing harnesses and airbags

[14T6MT]

If you install a quality racing seat with a quality multi-point harness, would you remove the airbag? Is a 5-point harness with no air bags actually safer than a normal seatbelt with airbags?
I'm assuming that, if you built your interior like the Sonic Super 4 concept, all airbags would be removed, or at least the curtain ones because they would be useless with a roll cage in their way.
I'm also guessing that in certain classes of racing, airbags need to be removed anyway so they don't go off if there's contact during a race.
I'm not planning on installing a race interior, I'm just curious.

 

[ThatTmoGuy]

I would assume airbags would not be needed in that kind of setup, If it was safer with them they would be in NASCAR and NHRA

 

[JohnT]

Yes, a properly designed and mounted 5-6 point harness and aftermarket seat should be safer than airbags. And if you are in the harness and proper seat the airbag won't really do anything anymore, so they can be removed.

However, the problem for everyday driving is movement. When you drive on the street you often have to peer around, reach for things, etc. This is just not possible if you are strapped in with a harness...so they are not really practical for everyday use. I've driven around in harness before on the street and I can tell you it gets old really fast. Its also a pain to get all the straps buckled in and tightened by yourself every time you get in.

 

[Eric Smit]

it's worth it because they look cool.






did I rice that right?


-Eric Smit

 

[14T6MT]

Correctly riced, Eric.

I hadn't thought about visibility. I suppose it would be a nightmare to back out of a parking spot or change lanes on a busy highway.
Any amateur racers here know how quick you have to be before you hit the breakout times that require a 5-point harness? I know there are times that require a roll cage...

 

[whitnith]

Correctly riced, Eric.

I hadn't thought about visibility. I suppose it would be a nightmare to back out of a parking spot or change lanes on a busy highway.
Any amateur racers here know how quick you have to be before you hit the breakout times that require a 5-point harness? I know there are times that require a roll cage...

I take it you are talking drag racing?

Only need harnesses when you need a cage.

 

[Eric Smit]

Keith's jeep has harnesses and a cage, and it is brutal to look around. looks cool though.


-Eric Smit

 

[rdss]

I would assume airbags would not be needed in that kind of setup, If it was safer with them they would be in NASCAR and NHRA

Your head is still going to jolt forward which the airbag will protect against unless you plan on wearing a helmet with neck brace/ring (NHRA) or a helmet with HANS Device installed (NASCAR).

 

[gdideric]

I have a friend with an M coupe with full cage and racing buckets. He is really good at remembering to put his sunglasses on BEFORE strapping in, LOL. Otherwise they are JUST out of reach on the dash.

Visibility isn't really an issue. If you have your mirrors adjusted properly you are just giving a quick glance to the side with you head. And you can back up with your mirrors too.

I assume if you've gone so far as to remove the airbags, the radio is gone too, so that's not an issue...so what do you have to reach for? Your cell phone? leave it alone. His car is far to loud for a cell phone anyways with no interior.

Added bonus: You can size the passenger bucket to whatever size butt you want sitting in it...

 

[theenico]

Road racing, Auto-X, and time trials/HPDE don't have breakout times. That's just a drag racing thing.

I agree about harnesses and race seats being a pain on the street. Been there done that.

 

[gdideric]

Road racing, Auto-X, and time trials/HPDE don't have breakout times. That's just a drag racing thing.

I agree about harnesses and race seats being a pain on the street. Been there done that.

everybody SHOULD do it once.

 

[JohnT]

People who do track days or autocross sometimes put in a harness to hold them in place, but you can just leave the regular seat belt in place for everyday driving.

Really the only time you need to go with a seat and harness is when you install an obtrusive cage or roll bar. Often the cage or roll bar will be the first thing your head contacts in an accident. This can easily kill you if you are not strapped down and wearing a helmet. That is also why you should never put a cage in a street car. Roll bars highly depend on the layout.

I don't see ever wanting to put a cage or roll bar in a Sonic unless I'm going b-spec racing. I like the sonic a lot for what it is, but there are many better chassis to start with for a full time track car.

 

[gdideric]

People who do track days or autocross sometimes put in a harness to hold them in place, but you can just leave the regular seat belt in place for everyday driving.

Really the only time you need to go with a seat and harness is when you install an obtrusive cage or roll bar. Often the cage or roll bar will be the first thing your head contacts in an accident. This can easily kill you if you are not strapped down and wearing a helmet. That is also why you should never put a cage in a street car. Roll bars highly depend on the layout.

I don't see ever wanting to put a cage or roll bar in a Sonic unless I'm going b-spec racing. I like the sonic a lot for what it is, but there are many better chassis to start with for a full time track car.

very good points.

 

[14T6MT]

I was curious because I was reading some guy's build log for a hill-climb RX7, and he mentioned sandbagging his time at the end of the course because he wasn't ready to install a cage yet.

 

[theenico]

I could see a hillclimb having that. They typically run the same course all the time. That would make it easier to put a bogey on a time.

 

[whitnith]

I was curious because I was reading some guy's build log for a hill-climb RX7, and he mentioned sandbagging his time at the end of the course because he wasn't ready to install a cage yet.

Legit hill-climbs are generally redic with rules. I'm surprised he could run it at all without one.

 

[14T6MT]

Legit hill-climbs are generally redic with rules. I'm surprised he could run it at all without one.

It was in Vermont...Vermont is full of weird. It was a seriously badass spartan RX-7, though.

 

[bearda]

I run a full roll bar/seats/6 pt harness setup on my track Miata and once you start installing safety gear the other stuff can snowball pretty fast if you're trying to do it right. For track events in open top hehivle rolls bars are almost always required. In my case I needed to replace the seats to get under the rollbar (if you head is over the rollbar it isn't going to help you in a rollover). Once I replaced the seats it was clear that the stock belts wouldn't work with the new fixed seats, since the belt wouldn't go through the harness holes and line up with the receivers.

A lot of the time it's really not possible to safely mount a set of harnesses without replacing the seats anyway (and no, I don't consider any 4-points except for Schtoth's ASM ones safe). Trying to mount sub straps on a stock seat is usually a fail. Once you replace the seats you lose the weight sensors for the air bags.

One more vote for harnesses and fixed seats being a pain for daily driving. I don't usually daily my Miata (although I do drive it about an hour up to the track) but I do drive it in to work every once and a while so it doesn't sit too long. My seating position is lower than most so that has a lot to do with it, but even with the giant mirror parking and changing lanes are a pain if the belts are all the way tightened. As it stands I can barely reach the stereo, and have to make sure the driver's side door is closed before I tighten the shoulder belts. Great for HPDEs, not so much for daily driving.

 

[14T6MT]

Once you replace the seats you lose the weight sensors for the air bags.

That's really interesting, hadn't even occurred to me.