Those with experience with water/meth, in here please.

[BSD]

So I got a sick deal on a snow performance stage II MAF kit with other goodies and have some questions for those that have already done this or know more about water/meth than me.

Background: I'm running Trifecta Full Legacy and plan to keep my tune non-meth dependent (IE I run out of juice or fail to inject while driving and my engine doesn't asplode) for a few months while I work out the kinks.

First, the golden question: where should the injectors go? The instructions and most sites recommend as close to the throttle body/intake mani as possible however this would be past the IAT2 sensor. Would it not be prudent to inject before the sensor so the ECM knows that the post intake temp is lower and thus advances timing? Or does the ECM go by the knock sensor and injecting close to the TB/IM would be smarter to avoid heat soak?

If it's the latter does anybody know where I can find a TB spacer other than DDM's? I'd rather not go with them after the service I've received in the past.

Additionally I don't have a meth bung on my MPFab hard piping. I tried to work something out with MPFab but it didn't pan out and I don't really have access to a welder. The instructions say to drill/tap a hole to install, is that safe? Is the piping thick enough? I found a site that sells a 1.75 inch chunk of pipe with a bung on it and could add it down by the intercooler exit. Thoughts on that?

I have one other question that I can't seem to get answered. Is it better to have two smaller injectors or one larger one? Does it even matter? (I'm thinking probably not)

One of the goodies I got was SafeInjection which is a module that can either open the wastegate, open the BPV, or signal the ECM to cut boost should meth injection run out or fail. Can I plug it into the ECM and could Trifecta tune for it?

Lastly, I'd really like a way to turn meth on/off safely like a toggle switch in the cabin that way I can not use it when I'm just driving to work or getting groceries. Is this possible and if so how would I do it?

I realize most if not all of these questions would be better directed to Trifecta. That said, their turnaround time leaves much to be desired so it is my hope that I can get some of them answered here and send the remaining to Trifecta to expedite their response.

Thank you all.

 

[Camaroboi13]

I ran mine with a master switch on my console, and used a hobbs switch for boost pressure. At first, when I was just toying with cheap mods like you are, I had one injector that was after the IAT sensor but obviously before the throttle body. On that particular car we did not have a maf, we had a map sensor.

You're not going to get heat soak when injecting, I can promise you that. The air moves so fast that there is no time for heating up. One thing to consider is that if your sensor fails and starts leaking water/meth, you'll want it to run back down into the intercooler rather than dripping into the throttle body. You can avoid drowning the engine that way...just a nice fail safe for future reference lol.

After I got tired of trying to figure out the best blend of water to meth, I went 100% meth and never looked back. With a flip of a switch and zero tuning, I picked up 18whp and 36ft. lbs torque with just meth injection alone. Then I went direct port meth injection and became a meth addict and it was all down hill from there haha.

As for the trifecta stuff, you'll have to contact them as I have no experience and will never have experience with them. I chose the 1.8 Auto base model sedan to stay out of trouble this time...tired if putting 3 transmissions in cars with less than 40k miles lmao. Enjoy the kit, snow performance makes a pretty decent DIY setup.

 

[sonic21]

I had the same questions so just to recap... If I run water/ meth injection through my mpfab intercooler I wouldn't need to tell trifecta? And it is possible to get a toggle switch to run it when I want?


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[BSD]

You're not going to get heat soak when injecting, I can promise you that. The air moves so fast that there is no time for heating up. One thing to consider is that if your sensor fails and starts leaking water/meth, you'll want it to run back down into the intercooler rather than dripping into the throttle body. You can avoid drowning the engine that way...just a nice fail safe for future reference lol.

Makes sense about the heat soak. And good tip, I'll definitely keep that in mind. Thanks!

 

[BSD]

I had the same questions so just to recap... If I run water/ meth injection through my mpfab intercooler I wouldn't need to tell trifecta? And it is possible to get a toggle switch to run it when I want?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From what I've researched I don't think it's necessary to retune with Trifecta, you just won't get full power from the extra timing/boost. However if you do retune then on high power (eg WOT) you'll NEED to have meth and if you run out or the system fails the engine could be damaged, so they say. Now our car has a knock sensor so this makes me wonder if this is really the case. (EDIT: Found out knock sensor might not be able to respond fast enough) Nonetheless, you can get a module for most kits that can save you should something go wrong with injection. Snow calls it SafeInjection.

I'm not sure if injection pre-intercooler is a good idea. Almost everywhere I read says to do it at the throttle body or as close to it as possible. Some people inject before the turbo but there is a lot of debate if this is bad for the turbo or not.

As for the toggle switch, I don't see why that would be a bad idea. I was thinking the same thing, have a switch that controls the injection controller and keep it off for daily driving.

I'm learning as I go here so anybody who knows better feel free to correct me.

 

[Camaroboi13]

I had the same questions so just to recap... If I run water/ meth injection through my mpfab intercooler I wouldn't need to tell trifecta? And it is possible to get a toggle switch to run it when I want?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is possible to get a toggle switch, and it's quite common to have one. I had one in my PT Cruiser that made an impressive 441whp/418ft. lbs torque. When I ran around town in a fuel economy mode, I left the switch off and the boost down. When I wanted to play, I could turn the boost up a bit, flip the switch, and know I'd be safe to have fun. When I went to the track, I ran 100 octane jet fuel, meth injection, and 27psi on a T3/T04E 50 trim that netted me some pretty decent quarter times.

As for the intercooler question, I believe you'll want to have it a bit closer to the throttle body in order to get the full effect of it. Too far away and you can get a puddling effect and the methanol won't atomize correctly.

The photo below shows where I had my meth injection in relation to the throttle body/iat sensor. It was nearly right across from the sensor, maybe 4" infront of the TB. It's the blue line coming from the right if you were trying to find it

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[BSD]

The IAT2 sensor on the sonic is about a foot and a half away from the throttle body. Is that close enough to prevent puddling? It's below the TB so even if it does it'll just leak back into the intercooler.

 

[lousypirate]

I didn't read much of this thread. I know a lot about water, and I have some old neighbors that know a lot about meth.

I cannot recommend injecting straight meth and trying to drive.

 

[Camaroboi13]

I didn't read much of this thread. I know a lot about water, and I have some old neighbors that know a lot about meth.

I cannot recommend injecting straight meth and trying to drive.

I can. Did it all the time without any negative side effects. It will wear out seals in your pump a little faster than denatured alcohol and distilled water will, but we're talking thousands of miles before any issues. I went through one solenoid and 2 injectors in the entire lifespan of my setup.

 

[Camaroboi13]

The IAT2 sensor on the sonic is about a foot and a half away from the throttle body. Is that close enough to prevent puddling? It's below the TB so even if it does it'll just leak back into the intercooler.

You'll probably be fine, but if I were making a setup on my own vehicle I would put it between the sensor and the TB. Just me though.

 

[lousypirate]

I can. Did it all the time without any negative side effects. It will wear out seals in your pump a little faster than denatured alcohol and distilled water will, but we're talking thousands of miles before any issues. I went through one solenoid and 2 injectors in the entire lifespan of my setup.

I think we are talking about two different kinds of meth.
And two different kinds of injections

 

[BSD]

 

[Camaroboi13]

I think we are talking about two different kinds of meth.
And two different kinds of injections

Yeah...I used to get that a lot, especially when I told everybody I was a big meth addict and I used to go through a gallon of meth per week. The faces I got were priceless.

 

[BSD]

I'm in the military and I'm gonna put a "I love Meth" sticker on my car just to fu-k with people. I expect lots of "random" drug tests but it'll be worth it.