Clutch is Completely Gone

[sx sonic]

I've noticed it but the jump is rather small. Most e-throttle programming will compensage for dropping revs by giving throttle.

Example is my old 2006 LS2 GTO. Set handbrake, and start slowly releasing clutch with no throttle. The ECU will really play hardball to keep the revs up to where the car would squat and strain against the handbrake. Quickly floor the clutch and watch the revs spike to 1500 or so. I've not heard folks on the forum thinking that this behavior would reduce clutch life. Perhaps this is rather different from the Sonic.

The Sonics (atleast 1.4t) take off assist is much different, it is minor and short lived, and thus ineffectual.

From my observations it is not intuitive.
It appears to operate on only 2 parameters.
#1 is clutch release, near the engagement spot it will essentially give a blip of the throttle, above a certain speed it becomes disabled.
#2 is time, it is only active for a short amount of time. Once that time limit is met the ECM essentially lets up on the throttle.

It also doesn't seem to work very well with driver commanded pedal request, as evidence by the multitude of different launch methods drivers use to take off smoothly, which is often different than their normal manual trans launch methods.

 

[Scot]

When I talked to TriVince about removing the throttle tip in and specifically about the "auto assist" that happens when releaseing the clutch, he said he doesn't mess with it. I'm not sure if that means he can't or won't remove it.

I agree that GM needs to do some corrections. I'm not sure how the auto assist tip in on clutch release made it thru testing, it has too short of duration to be useful and results in experienced drivers stalling often, doesn't help manual neophytes, and promotes clutch wear.

I've changed the behavior of that feature in HP tuner - but I do know it is some kind of "safety" feature for driveability. It could be simply the lack of low end torque at idle (relative to low displacement): I had to do this with the Lincoln LS 3.0L V6 manual trans cars: The car weighed just over 4000lb with an undersized clutch - without the "boost", it was damn hard to drive the car - and I've owned two auto transmission vehicles in the last 30 ish years.

So - maybe there is no way to inhibit bigger accessory loads during a launch, and it was found this was necessary for the 5% of people that may launch the car as the A/C compressor engages, the passenger turns on their heated seat and all cooling fans turn on.

Manufacturers have to protect for the lowest common denominator.


That being said...

...I believe my clutch is on its way out. Hopefully it will last until the summer when I can ride to work and but the car up on jackstands.

And though I only have 6500, I am not going to blame GM: It is the reality of running +45hp/+90lbft over stock power levels on such a tiny clutch. I know it was marginal to begin with - by GM recommending the 2014 clutch as a necessary upgrade for their performance parts.

 

[Preloader]

Ahhh yes.... GM's "Stage 0.5 Clutch" Because 7 more hp from an exhaust would totally fry the stock Stage 0 clutch.

That's like GM admitting the stock clutch is rated for 139.9 horsepower. That's some creative CYA right there.

 

[Scot]

Thanks for the laugh! I needed it today!

 

[ChrisJ]

The way I learned to drive my 1.4 Sonic within the first week was to treat it bass ackwards from any other manual.

Give some throttle and then take your completely off the throttle as you let the clutch up. Essentially the more you let the clutch up, the less throttle you give until you're giving zero throttle and the clutch is fully engaged. This gives a nice easy take off every time.

The only times I've had issues is when starting off on a hill with the A/C on. Then it seems to behave like it has absolutely no power at all. This usually results in me riding the clutch a lot more than I ever would.

I'm at 28,000 and have never felt any chatter. At least not yet.

So far, I think the 2012 clutch is designed perfect as long as you treat it the way I do and never get stuck in the snow on a hill, or need to back up in reverse on a hill with 4 passengers. If you do, you better have at least 3 people get out first.

Speaking of that, why does it seem like reverse is a bit tall on the Sonic? Is it just me? My truck had a 6.34:1 reverse so that might be why I'm not used to it.

 

[Leverus]

Is this a 1.4 behavior? I guarantee you my 1.8L 5 speed does NOT do this. It will try to maintain the 900 RPM idle, but does not flare.

My 1.8 does exactly what Preloader describes. It's annoying.

 

[KartRacer]

My RS does not flare either! Checked out today to be sure.

 

[ChrisJ]

I'm curious if the guys saying their car doesn't do anything weird doing take off have ever driven a carbureted car with a manual?

Don't take this question as rude, I'm only curious.

 

[ahtoxa]

Doesn't even have to be carbed, really. E-throttle cars behave quite differently than cable-throttled. There are a few exceptions, but with most you can tell the difference. The best e-throttle car I've had was my old LS2 GTO. It acted much like a cable throttle and was quick to respond with no rev hang or flares.

 

[ChrisJ]

Doesn't even have to be carbed, really. E-throttle cars behave quite differently than cable-throttled. There are a few exceptions, but with most you can tell the difference. The best e-throttle car I've had was my old LS2 GTO. It acted much like a cable throttle and was quick to respond with no rev hang or flares.

True,

But from what I've seen fuel injected vehicles, including simple throttle body injection do control idle and will ramp up to keep from stalling. My throttle body injected truck could have the clutch let out in 2nd (didn't use 1st) slowly without stalling.

Now a carbed car, you're 100% on you're own and that is what I started driving and in fact drove for quite a long time, until around 2003 or so.

Was cool having friends that didn't know to step on the pedal a bit to close the choke when starting cold

 

[ahtoxa]

My very first manual car was a 1986 Civic Wagon. It was also carbed. This was back in 2000, I think.

Edit: A family friend gave me the car. My family didn't know anything about manuals or carbs. My friends weren't much help either. I had to learn fast with that car. Good times, good times. I miss it.

 

[ChrisJ]

My very first manual car was a 1986 Civic Wagon. It was also carbed. This was back in 2000, I think.

Edit: A family friend gave me the car. My family didn't know anything about manuals or carbs. My friends weren't much help either. I had to learn fast with that car. Good times, good times. I miss it.

When I was 7 my dad gave my a Suzuki DS-80. That was what I feel I learned to "drive stick" on. No stick obviously, but I learned to use a clutch and shift on it. A lot of people claimed he was going to kill me letting me ride that, I'm pretty sure they were wrong though.

 

[thecasemaster]

Update: I called GM a couple of times and told them what was going on and that I felt like I shouldn't have to pay for anything. The dealership finally called me and said that they could knock 75% of the bill off which would leave me paying $500. I wasn't really happy with this but need my car back (I work for Lyft part time and can't work unless I have my car) so I agreed to pay the $500. Went to pick up my car today and the center console wasn't completely put back together when I got in the car, the clutch fully engaged almost immediately (versus gradually through the full length of the pedal push), and I heard a rattle coming from the transmission.

After this I went back inside to tell the service representative. They put me right back in the loaner I had just dropped off and my car is back in the shop.....

 

[ahtoxa]

Sounds like a dealer I've been to. I'd go in to fix one thing, but in the process of doing that, they neglect to put something back in, tighten something else all the way or align the the other related part. That results in going back a time or two and wasting time.

Frankly, my clutch pedal's creaking (well-documented here) is getting very loud and annoying but I don't want to take it in because I'm almost betting that I'll end up walking about of there with some sort of silly crap that you're experiencing.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Almost forgot. If I were you, I'd be asking them to show you your bad parts that they removed. Ask them to see the clutch disk and plate that they must have replaced, of that's what the order says. Do it, take pictures of it and post here, please.

I am very curious about the condition of 'em.

 

[sx sonic]

Almost forgot. If I were you, I'd be asking them to show you your bad parts that they removed. Ask them to see the clutch disk and plate that they must have replaced, of that's what the order says. Do it, take pictures of it and post here, please.

I am very curious about the condition of 'em.

This.

 

[KartRacer]

Sounds like a dealer I've been to. I'd go in to fix one thing, but in the process of doing that, they neglect to put something back in, tighten something else all the way or align the the other related part. That results in going back a time or two and wasting time.

Frankly, my clutch pedal's creaking (well-documented here) is getting very loud and annoying but I don't want to take it in because I'm almost betting that I'll end up walking about of there with some sort of silly crap that you're experiencing.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Almost forgot. If I were you, I'd be asking them to show you your bad parts that they removed. Ask them to see the clutch disk and plate that they must have replaced, of that's what the order says. Do it, take pictures of it and post here, please.

I am very curious about the condition of 'em.

Me too, frankly I think it is BS. You would have to be the all time dumbest driver of all time to completely burn out a clutch in 27,000 miles.
Sorry but I think you have been sc#####.

 

[sx sonic]

Me too, frankly I think it is BS. You would have to be the all time dumbest driver of all time to completely burn out a clutch in 27,000 miles.
Sorry but I think you have been sc#####.

Sadly you are very wrong :sadbanana:. I believe the all time worst goes to a corvette owner that fried his clutch in 2 feet (it's on you tube). There are many other cases of owners killing there clutches in low miles, seen a few in the shop myself.

Even got to witness a moron buy a 60k BMW with no manual trans experience and apparently Zero critical thinking skills leave the dealer. After 5 mins of trying to pull onto the main road and a little clutch smoke he revved the car to the moon and dumped the clutch and almost managed to hit oncoming traffic 4 lanes over. Not sure whatever became of the car but it was surely expensive.


Although in reality there's not that many schmucks on the road, just be careful when you use the word, "worst driver" lol

 

[SouthFLSonic]

Sadly you are very wrong :sadbanana:. I believe the all time worst goes to a corvette owner that fried his clutch in 2 feet (it's on you tube). There are many other cases of owners killing there clutches in low miles, seen a few in the shop myself.

Talking about this guy?? WOW!!!!! Look at all the smoke from my burnout....... wait that doesn't smell like a burnout.......oh :sadbanana: :blankface:
corvette burnout gone bad - YouTube

 

[ChrisJ]

Talking about this guy?? WOW!!!!! Look at all the smoke from my burnout....... wait that doesn't smell like a burnout.......oh :sadbanana: :blankface:
corvette burnout gone bad - YouTube

That was painful to watch. The entire thing....

I'm sorry but no squealing........ no feeling of tires spinning and the fact something smells VERY FOWL should have been obvious.

Clutch and brakes smell very unique.


Ugh.

 

[ahtoxa]

Yeah, there's no way a slipping clutch feels similar to spinning tires. The vibes are all wrong, in more ways than one. Granted, I have no experience with such clutch abuse.