CM Stage 4 Clutch and Aluminum Flywheel Review

[ChrisJ]

Again not sure if its even remotely similar but they way we ended up bleeding the clutch on my truck, which I think was the third or fourth attempt, was we had someone stand over the master and keep it full of fluid while letting it pour out of the bleed screw on the slave.

Didn't think it would work but it actually worked better then any other method, though we used a lot more fluid due to all the waste. From what I recall, air in the system caused the clutch not to fully disengage which sounds the complete opposite of what you're having.


Fact is Preloader has more experience with this clutch then I think anyone else on this forum. I have ZERO other then driving the car.

 

[Preloader]

The unfortunate thing about our set-up, is that there is no bleeder at the end of the line, which is the slave. That's why bench bleeding is critical.

Once the trans is reinstalled, the one and only bleeder valve will allow you to bleed the system between the reservoir and the point at which the hydraulic line enters the bell housing.

Vacuum or reverse bleeding is a moot point, because you can't add fluid from the slave end.

EDIT: air has a tendency to work it's way up and out. Laws of physics and specific gravity dictate that air wants nothing more than to climb up and out. If air in the system is the actual culprit, and it feels even slightly better after a couple days...... I think it will gradually work itself out.

 

[SONIC1.4]

Don't know if you're on Facebook, but try this link:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=738160219550467

Maybe try leaving the fluid reservoir cap off while letting it rest and/or pumping it.

Yep I'm on facebook, i actually just added you. I'm going to go check out the plunger thing to see if it worked, if not, then ill try pumping it with the cap off

 

[Eric Smit]

good luck.

 

[SONIC1.4]

The unfortunate thing about our set-up, is that there is no bleeder at the end of the line, which is the slave. That's why bench bleeding is critical.

Once the trans is reinstalled, the one and only bleeder valve will allow you to bleed the system between the reservoir and the point at which the hydraulic line enters the bell housing.

Vacuum or reverse bleeding is a moot point, because you can't add fluid from the slave end.

EDIT: air has a tendency to work it's way up and out. Laws of physics and specific gravity dictate that air wants nothing more than to climb up and out. If air in the system is the actual culprit, and it feels even slightly better after a couple days...... I think it will gradually work itself out.

Well, its feels exatly the same today as it has any other day. I went to my dads house to show him what was happening. And while he was pressing the clutch I was standing over the engine bay with the hood open. Well that air or "pshhhh" like sound on the facebook page video you linked is super loud from the engine bay. It has to be the culprit, I just don't know what the sound is! I've called all the tranny shops in town and theyre stumped too. I did notice something else though. At the very top of the engagement point there is a tiny tiny spot of play in the pedal. Its as if the first half inch of pedal travel is soft and there's little resistance compared to the rest of pedal travel. Maybe even less then a half inch. I could probably push the pedal with my pinky finger and feel the play. But after that play, the pedal feels completely normal. I almost want to say where this little bit of "play" is, is where the pedal keeps sticking as welll.

 

[Al Marino]

That would drive me insane. I wouldn't have the patients for that. That's one reason I'm not a tech anymore.


Sent by carrier pigeon

 

[Preloader]

The tiny bit of free play at the very top is normal.

Since you can clearly hear the sound under the hood, the next logical step is to trace it down.

Get yourself a 3 foot length of 1/8" vacuum hose and shove one end in your ear. Have a friend pump the pedal while you poke the other end of the hose around the hydraulic system like a stethoscope.

If you can pin point the area, you may actually have a bad seal there.

 

[SONIC1.4]

The tiny bit of free play at the very top is normal.

Since you can clearly hear the sound under the hood, the next logical step is to trace it down.

Get yourself a 3 foot length of 1/8" vacuum hose and shove one end in your ear. Have a friend pump the pedal while you poke the other end of the hose around the hydraulic system like a stethoscope.

If you can pin point the area, you may actually have a bad seal there.

Okay cool, I'm taking it into the shop tomorrow and ill show him what I've found and we'll take a look at it. What seal could be involved down in that area?

 

[Preloader]

The tee with the bleeder valve has a little rubber tophat-looking seal that goes on the end of the flex hose. I've had issues with that seal before. There are also hose seals at the master, and at the reservoir, but I doubt those would have been disturbed.

It's really hard to diagnose over the internet, but if I was there in person, that'd be the next thing I'd do. Listen with a hose to pinpoint where the air sound is actually coming from.

 

[SONIC1.4]

Hmmm well we vaccume bled the system today. Nothing changed. Think I may just taje it to the dealer, let them figure out the problem, then take it elsewhere to fix it.

 

[ss2000slp]

Probably not the news you want to hear, but I had similar issues on a ranger and a 944. Same exact thing you are describing, caused by air in the system. Both times I spent well over an hour trying everything I could think of to bleed the system. Must have gone thru almost a gallon of fluid. Both times the issue was solved by removing the slave cylinder and bleeding it outside of the vehicle.

 

[Eric Smit]

Probably not the news you want to hear, but I had similar issues on a ranger and a 944. Same exact thing you are describing, caused by air in the system. Both times I spent well over an hour trying everything I could think of to bleed the system. Must have gone thru almost a gallon of fluid. Both times the issue was solved by removing the slave cylinder and bleeding it outside of the vehicle.

any possible solution is good news.

 

[SONIC1.4]

Probably not the news you want to hear, but I had similar issues on a ranger and a 944. Same exact thing you are describing, caused by air in the system. Both times I spent well over an hour trying everything I could think of to bleed the system. Must have gone thru almost a gallon of fluid. Both times the issue was solved by removing the slave cylinder and bleeding it outside of the vehicle.

Like Eric said, at this point any news is good news. I'm sitting at the dealer as we speak. They quoted $100 to tear it apart and figure out whats wrong with it. I told them I don't want it fixed unless its under warranty. I informed them I do have an aftermarket clutch and flywheel, they would have known anyways because of the chatter so I thought I'd just be honest.

 

[SONIC1.4]

Alright well, they didn't charge me. They said basically what could be happening is the pressure plate isn't releasing quick enough. The pedal is sprung faster than the pressure plate is allowing. Either that or there is something wrong with the slave cylinder. So either way, it looks like this bitch is coming back out too see what the problem is. Which I won't be able to affors for a bit. So that sucks.

 

[Scot]

Preloader - did you see any way to add a bleed at the slave end? Seems like if something could be added, it would be a great help...

Anyone make aftermarket slaves? You mentioned ours seems really cheap...

 

[SONIC1.4]

Our slave is cheap. But it should get the job done. I personally think its the clutch delay valve. I'm going totry to take it out and see what happens.

 

[Preloader]

There is no simple way to add a bleeder to the slave. Besides you wouldn't be able to access it once the trans installed.

CM does make some sport slaves. They have a second port, for bleeding.

The trick is to bench bleed it well. Shove the tube into a bottle of brake fluid and slowly pump it until NO comes out.

I too am interested in deleting the "shock dampener".

I may cut the ends off of a stock master-to-slave line and TIG weld in a 1/4" tube in its place.

 

[SONIC1.4]

There is no simple way to add a bleeder to the slave. Besides you wouldn't be able to access it once the trans installed.

CM does make some sport slaves. They have a second port, for bleeding.

The trick is to bench bleed it well. Shove the tube into a bottle of brake fluid and slowly pump it until NO comes out.

I too am interested in deleting the "shock dampener".

I may cut the ends off of a stock master-to-slave line and TIG weld in a 1/4" tube in its place.

Preloader, do you have a pic of the Clutch Delay Valve or "Shock Damper"? I don't know where it is and I want my mechanic to take it out. You really think bench bleeding it is worth a try after already bleeding it 3 times and the last time with a vaccume? I'm stuck, idk what to do. And neither does any mechanic.

 

[Preloader]

Trans has to come out to bench bleed slave. I put a new slave in ANYTIME I install the trans. I was goin to reuse one after only a couple thousand miles, and it literally popped the seal in my hands before I could reinstall it.

Btw, the "shock dampener" is #4 in this diagram:

 

[SONIC1.4]

Wouldn't Clutch Masters New Flow Control Valve work as a delete "device" for #4. Allowing more fluid to pass. Or I could just cut it out and find a way to put it together.