Chazzz
Member
This may very well be the last year to buy a new Sonic. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoblog.com/amp/2019/01/18/chevy-sonic-gm-killing/
Looks like Sonic is back on the chopping block
- Thread starter Chazzz
- Start date
JTee2017
Well-known member
Sad. . .
The reason Sonic sales have been down starting 4 years back is dealers simply did not order many for stock. They made more money on Cruze which became popular. It didn't help that GM also heavily discounted Cruze starting inf 2016-17 which brought it down to Sonic prices. Dealers made a bit more profit off the Cruze, yet it too has become doomed.
In September 2017 when we bought our Sonic, the dealer had scores of Cruze sedans and hatchbacks on the lot for the same price as the Sonic hatch. We did not care for a number of things in the Cruze. But many people shopping in that price range buy what appears to be the best deal.
So where does that leave the small GM U.S car market? The mistake is, there is no decent sized *new* car that a large and growing lower middle income population can afford. The low cost Nissan Versa is a pretty roomy car, but suffers the same marketing mistake as Sonic.. . . hardly any on dealer lots for those who might afford it to purchase. It's a "Catch 22" scenario.
It does not help that all the advertising pushes Trax, Encore, Equinox, etc which are all +$18,000 even with generous rebates on a base model.
The Sonic is built on the Gamma II platform (same as Trax) offers nearly the same interior space (except height) as Trax, BTW, and the Sonic is lower cost, 300lbs lighter, and gets better MPG.
Chevrolet Sonic
Dimensions
Passenger Capacity: 5
Passenger Volume (cu. ft.): 90.3
Front Head Room (in.): 38.70
Front Leg Room (in.): 41.80
Front Shoulder Room (in.): 53.40
Front Hip Room (in.): 51.40
Second Head Room (in.): 38.10
Second Leg Room (in.): 34.60
Second Shoulder Room (in.): 53.00
Second Hip Room (in.): 51.60
Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Down (cu. ft.): 47.7
Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Up (cu. ft.) : 19.0
Buick Encore / Chevrolet Trax
Dimensions
Passenger Capacity: 5
Passenger Volume (cu. ft.): 92.8
Front Head Room (in.): 39.58
Front Leg Room (in.): 40.82
Front Shoulder Room (in.): 54.18
Front Hip Room (in.): 51.65
Second Head Room (in.): 38.78
Second Leg Room (in.): 35.75
Second Shoulder Room (in.): 52.55
Second Hip Room (in.): 50.08
Cargo Volume to Seat 1 (cu. ft.): 48.40
Cargo Volume to Seat 2 (cu. ft.): 18.80
The reason Sonic sales have been down starting 4 years back is dealers simply did not order many for stock. They made more money on Cruze which became popular. It didn't help that GM also heavily discounted Cruze starting inf 2016-17 which brought it down to Sonic prices. Dealers made a bit more profit off the Cruze, yet it too has become doomed.
In September 2017 when we bought our Sonic, the dealer had scores of Cruze sedans and hatchbacks on the lot for the same price as the Sonic hatch. We did not care for a number of things in the Cruze. But many people shopping in that price range buy what appears to be the best deal.
So where does that leave the small GM U.S car market? The mistake is, there is no decent sized *new* car that a large and growing lower middle income population can afford. The low cost Nissan Versa is a pretty roomy car, but suffers the same marketing mistake as Sonic.. . . hardly any on dealer lots for those who might afford it to purchase. It's a "Catch 22" scenario.
It does not help that all the advertising pushes Trax, Encore, Equinox, etc which are all +$18,000 even with generous rebates on a base model.
The Sonic is built on the Gamma II platform (same as Trax) offers nearly the same interior space (except height) as Trax, BTW, and the Sonic is lower cost, 300lbs lighter, and gets better MPG.
Chevrolet Sonic
Dimensions
Passenger Capacity: 5
Passenger Volume (cu. ft.): 90.3
Front Head Room (in.): 38.70
Front Leg Room (in.): 41.80
Front Shoulder Room (in.): 53.40
Front Hip Room (in.): 51.40
Second Head Room (in.): 38.10
Second Leg Room (in.): 34.60
Second Shoulder Room (in.): 53.00
Second Hip Room (in.): 51.60
Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Down (cu. ft.): 47.7
Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Up (cu. ft.) : 19.0
Buick Encore / Chevrolet Trax
Dimensions
Passenger Capacity: 5
Passenger Volume (cu. ft.): 92.8
Front Head Room (in.): 39.58
Front Leg Room (in.): 40.82
Front Shoulder Room (in.): 54.18
Front Hip Room (in.): 51.65
Second Head Room (in.): 38.78
Second Leg Room (in.): 35.75
Second Shoulder Room (in.): 52.55
Second Hip Room (in.): 50.08
Cargo Volume to Seat 1 (cu. ft.): 48.40
Cargo Volume to Seat 2 (cu. ft.): 18.80
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Chazzz
Member
I think the Cruze RS Hatchback would be the best GM alternative to the Sonic. They did a nice job on the 19 refresh including all the active safety equipment and dope new wheels.... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wBbch...dbBwXNq5H5H5Nq-IqogJ&noapp=1&client=mv-google
shorebreeze
Member
All I can say is, apparently GM does not want my business. Probably going to have to hold on to the 2014 for a while longer. The alternatives are all imported and either cost a bunch or don't have enough driver legroom. Pity US manufacturers seem to have decided Trump's rollback of fuel economy regulations means that it's time to ditch cars. Maybe we as consumers are going to have to ditch cars too and ride-share or rent instead as needed. I don't want some two-ton SUV that sucks gas and doesn't fit in parking spaces.
If GM would market coherently, this might not have happened. But they've utterly refused to market the Sonic, and when Cruze sales cratered they lowered the price so much that it hammered the Sonic as well. Which is a real shame because when it comes to B-class cars, the Sonic's the only one on the US market that's worth having.
If GM would market coherently, this might not have happened. But they've utterly refused to market the Sonic, and when Cruze sales cratered they lowered the price so much that it hammered the Sonic as well. Which is a real shame because when it comes to B-class cars, the Sonic's the only one on the US market that's worth having.
Rockcrusher
Member
Some of this may be guesswork on my part but here's the feeling I get about the US and its auto industry. We, in the US, are blessed with reasonable gas prices and open space. Due to this, I feel US consumers are more likely to gobble up trucks, SUVs and crossovers.
I remember when trucks were, well, trucks. They were utility vehicles for people that needed them and not status symbols. The price of some special edition trucks nowadays is simply incredible. Looking at these luxury add-ons (fancy dash boards, leather seating, etc.) and the comparing them to the added cost of the truck, I can only deduce that the profit margins are quite high on these vehicles. But, consumers (those that are gullible or simply flush with cash to afford such niceties) buy them and thus US manufacturers happily produce them. If there's a market, then there will be product.
The problem is the US automakers seem to look down the road about 2 years or so (sometimes just to the next quarter, gotta keep those shareholders happy) and the average US consumers does too. Remember the gas crunch? Remember cash for clunkers and the influx of smaller fuel efficient cars? Well most people must have forgotten because as soon as gas prices settled down, everyone went back to their bloated SUV pigs. Now all those smaller cars are getting the ax. The rest of the world doesn't think this way. They can't afford to. Someday we won't be able to either.
Personally, I enjoy driving. The Sonic, for example is an awesome, fun little car. GM, in their usual short-sighted stupidness is once again going to kill something they finally got right. But, can you blame them? They're a reactionary company and if products don't sell because the buyers are also too short-sighted, they have no choice in their eyes. I despise driving trucks and SUVs. The general public who cares more about comfort and social media could care less about driving dynamics. I will add the caveat, for those that need the space or AWD of a SUV, I understand. There are definitely tons of scenarios where an SUV fits the bill. If you tow or haul a lot, then a truck serves a purpose. If you own a loaded dually truck that's never seen a trailer hitch or had something in the bed, then that's foolish in my eyes. Right or wrong, just my 2 cents.
I remember when trucks were, well, trucks. They were utility vehicles for people that needed them and not status symbols. The price of some special edition trucks nowadays is simply incredible. Looking at these luxury add-ons (fancy dash boards, leather seating, etc.) and the comparing them to the added cost of the truck, I can only deduce that the profit margins are quite high on these vehicles. But, consumers (those that are gullible or simply flush with cash to afford such niceties) buy them and thus US manufacturers happily produce them. If there's a market, then there will be product.
The problem is the US automakers seem to look down the road about 2 years or so (sometimes just to the next quarter, gotta keep those shareholders happy) and the average US consumers does too. Remember the gas crunch? Remember cash for clunkers and the influx of smaller fuel efficient cars? Well most people must have forgotten because as soon as gas prices settled down, everyone went back to their bloated SUV pigs. Now all those smaller cars are getting the ax. The rest of the world doesn't think this way. They can't afford to. Someday we won't be able to either.
Personally, I enjoy driving. The Sonic, for example is an awesome, fun little car. GM, in their usual short-sighted stupidness is once again going to kill something they finally got right. But, can you blame them? They're a reactionary company and if products don't sell because the buyers are also too short-sighted, they have no choice in their eyes. I despise driving trucks and SUVs. The general public who cares more about comfort and social media could care less about driving dynamics. I will add the caveat, for those that need the space or AWD of a SUV, I understand. There are definitely tons of scenarios where an SUV fits the bill. If you tow or haul a lot, then a truck serves a purpose. If you own a loaded dually truck that's never seen a trailer hitch or had something in the bed, then that's foolish in my eyes. Right or wrong, just my 2 cents.
like the lifted F250 around here on 44's never has a spec of dust never outside in winter(canada snow.. argh.. 340cm so far this year LOL) let alone used offroad :O or the built like a tank jeep rubicon.... haha when i asked that guy he said he scared to scratch it .. argh ..
it does suck the sonic is being pulled and with the cruze being gone, maybe it might have come out of the cruze's shadows, but the trax might be a decent replacement having its AWD option, and pretty much same room inside.. but i would still prefer the sonic itself with lower center of gravity to have the AWD .. but with our luck the trax might get axed aswell soon enough..
Maybe GM is thinking they can get all of us Sonic-lovers to trade in our cars on the Bolt EV.... Costs about twice as much, probably more profitable, and really helps their fleet mpg numbers.
I actually thought about getting a Bolt EV, but I just don't drive enough to justify spending $35k on ANY car... $20k sounds like a lot to me...
But, I'm not normal, I buy cars with cash, while others finance. $400 per month for 72 months sounds cheaper than $25,000 cash to people who are not math professors. (Assuming 4.75% interest, the are equal.)
I actually thought about getting a Bolt EV, but I just don't drive enough to justify spending $35k on ANY car... $20k sounds like a lot to me...
But, I'm not normal, I buy cars with cash, while others finance. $400 per month for 72 months sounds cheaper than $25,000 cash to people who are not math professors. (Assuming 4.75% interest, the are equal.)
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Rockcrusher
Member
I also buy cars with cash. Now, understandably, not everyone can do this. Cars, in general, are expensive.
The funny thing is, at their core, vehicles are just tools. They get us from point A to point B. They haul things, etc. Automobiles are strangely infused with this kind of romance and status in our culture that goes beyond their base purpose. Nobody feels the same way about a shovel, oven or a fridge as they do about an automobile. So, we kill ourselves working to make payments on something that depreciates at the speed of sound and will be "dated" before its payed up all in the name of this passion purchase. Perhaps that's one of the draws the Sonic has for me. While having modern trappings, the car is honest about what it is and truthfully is just enough car for the average person. People don't NEED Cadillacs, Infinties, etc., they WANT them (and then 3-4 years later, want a newer one).
The funny thing is, at their core, vehicles are just tools. They get us from point A to point B. They haul things, etc. Automobiles are strangely infused with this kind of romance and status in our culture that goes beyond their base purpose. Nobody feels the same way about a shovel, oven or a fridge as they do about an automobile. So, we kill ourselves working to make payments on something that depreciates at the speed of sound and will be "dated" before its payed up all in the name of this passion purchase. Perhaps that's one of the draws the Sonic has for me. While having modern trappings, the car is honest about what it is and truthfully is just enough car for the average person. People don't NEED Cadillacs, Infinties, etc., they WANT them (and then 3-4 years later, want a newer one).
RIZNOSS
Member
GM is run by people that "know" electric cars will take over
Thus a redesign for the NA market would be sunk cash into something that they "don't want". Even though this sentiment has been proven WRONG for about 5-7 years. This is your problem, fruitcakes in charge looking for any sales pattern to move into the direction they want to go. The sonic is truly a wonder to still be around or sell at all given the already discussed marketing and sales blunders.
I've been a GM diehard my entire life and this company is not only not what it used to be, but it has spiraled further into the toilet in last few years. What kind of idiot would abandon the cruze/sonic market when that is a HUGE market that sells almost worldwide other than the USA? Who pulls a manual trans from a compact car lineup offering? People trying to shape the market based on knee-jerk reactions, not allow the market to dictate. And herein lies the problem with current management in engineered product corporations inside and outside auto, they know better and let their "wants" take much more precedent in decisions than the free market. They have put so much money into R&D to be the first company to put some PC, anti-oil **** into the market with out paying any attention to what the market wants. Now they need capital for actual redesign projects and they just don't think its worth it.
Another small factor is the Sonic and its reliability have been below average to say the least. Many bulletins cost them a lot due to their use of **** parts combined with piss-poor design validation because of you guessed, illogical development timelines by those "in charge" on a car that EV will replace in their minds(still not happening guys). I can see reasons to get rid of the sonic at this point, but not to get rid of the segment. I wish we could be like Mexico, and buy all the tooling to keep building cars that are liked on our own for 30 years. Original VW bug production was halted there in the last decade if I'm not mistaken.
Thus a redesign for the NA market would be sunk cash into something that they "don't want". Even though this sentiment has been proven WRONG for about 5-7 years. This is your problem, fruitcakes in charge looking for any sales pattern to move into the direction they want to go. The sonic is truly a wonder to still be around or sell at all given the already discussed marketing and sales blunders.
I've been a GM diehard my entire life and this company is not only not what it used to be, but it has spiraled further into the toilet in last few years. What kind of idiot would abandon the cruze/sonic market when that is a HUGE market that sells almost worldwide other than the USA? Who pulls a manual trans from a compact car lineup offering? People trying to shape the market based on knee-jerk reactions, not allow the market to dictate. And herein lies the problem with current management in engineered product corporations inside and outside auto, they know better and let their "wants" take much more precedent in decisions than the free market. They have put so much money into R&D to be the first company to put some PC, anti-oil **** into the market with out paying any attention to what the market wants. Now they need capital for actual redesign projects and they just don't think its worth it.
Another small factor is the Sonic and its reliability have been below average to say the least. Many bulletins cost them a lot due to their use of **** parts combined with piss-poor design validation because of you guessed, illogical development timelines by those "in charge" on a car that EV will replace in their minds(still not happening guys). I can see reasons to get rid of the sonic at this point, but not to get rid of the segment. I wish we could be like Mexico, and buy all the tooling to keep building cars that are liked on our own for 30 years. Original VW bug production was halted there in the last decade if I'm not mistaken.
LorbeerTLC
Member
Those Incredible Sonic Commercials... What Happened??
I've said this once and I'll say it again.
What happened to the advertising that the Sonic once had? When was the last time GM/Chevrolet had a commercial on the Sonic?
It's like they show how bad the Sonic's sales are, yet there's no budget to advertise.
Remember these circa 2012?
YouTube Sonic Commercials
I don't understand... :blankface:
I've said this once and I'll say it again.
What happened to the advertising that the Sonic once had? When was the last time GM/Chevrolet had a commercial on the Sonic?
It's like they show how bad the Sonic's sales are, yet there's no budget to advertise.
Remember these circa 2012?
YouTube Sonic Commercials
I don't understand... :blankface:
Chazzz
Member
I've said this once and I'll say it again.
What happened to the advertising that the Sonic once had? When was the last time GM/Chevrolet had a commercial on the Sonic?
It's like they show how bad the Sonic's sales are, yet there's no budget to advertise.
Remember these circa 2012?
YouTube Sonic Commercials
I don't understand... :blankface:
This exact question is asked almost daily over on the Camaro forum. It appears that GM’s new advertising policy is the real people spots that promote many car models in one commercial. I’m convinced that the company’s new philosophy is basically to please their stockholders. It’s all about profit per vehicle now, regardless how many jobs, plants and shifts are shutdown. The days of make as many as capacity allows and then put huge incentives on the hoods to move them seem to be a thing of the past, regardless of how many jobs are lost and how many plants are closed. Sadly, it seems the only reason Sonic is still in production today is they had extra unused parts available and the Orion assembly plant in which GM recently invested $100 million in for electric vehicle production, is currently operating at just 34% capacity. Sadly, GM has long given up on promoting the Sonic as the model ages out and demand for passenger cars in general continue to plummet.. I am a car guy, an old school enthusiast, and riding up high in a heavier SUV will never be my thing. Options on affordable GM vehicles for people like me, are to say the least getting extremely thin....
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LorbeerTLC
Member
You know, I could have bought a Honda Fit back at the end of 2011. But the US was coming out of a recession and there was a big push to have the UAW take concessions at the Orion plant in order to build both the Sonic and the Verano here instead of South Korea. I wanted to buy a subcompact hatchback that would be built in the USA and the way GM/Chevrolet was pushing for the Sonic, I wanted to believe this was a product that was going to set an example that you can build a subcompact car in the United States.
After the GM Bankruptcy, I wanted to believe this would be a new and better GM. That GM was going to support the Sonic and become the benchmark of a new line of cars built to succeed, not built to fail. But then the advertising stopped and so did the sales. Granted, gas prices have fallen and there's a huge support for Crossovers and small SUV's. But now I feel support has been all but abandoned for the Sonic (and maybe the Spark as well).
In a way I feel betrayed because of it. It's like a child is sick but the parents won't pay for the necessary medication needed to help make the patient better. I can't imagine the frustration from all the people who designed and helped make the Sonic possible, only to see it become another victim.
And now more GM vehicles are being imported. Should it bother me that we'll be getting more GM products imported from China?
I guess I'm from a different era as there has certainly been a paradigm shift.
MrJulian
New member
Well said! I also wanted to “buy American” back in early 2012 and wanted to support General Motors getting back on its feet.
It’s sad that GM is eliminating smaller vehicles from its lineup.
I mean the reason its on the chopping block is a simple decision. American cars are far from being "American." I know everyone is all gung ho about 'Merica, but the truth is Honda and Toyota make more American built cars than GM or Ford do. You buy off an image that isn't really even true or relevant. That and the fact of the matter is, global entities are global, they have no allegiance.
In terms of the Sonic, GM is not getting good enough marginal profit on each Sonic they sell. It's not worth it to them when they can shuffle around talent, retool, and build more profitable vehicles.
Not to mention they are getting squeezed on the lower end by Hyundai and Kia which offer more value, better quality, and more options. Plus they build them at a better margin than GM. On the upper end, Toyota and Honda are legendary with their build quality and profitability. GM is making a smart move to cut the Sonic regardless of what a nice niche position its in.
In terms of the Sonic, GM is not getting good enough marginal profit on each Sonic they sell. It's not worth it to them when they can shuffle around talent, retool, and build more profitable vehicles.
Not to mention they are getting squeezed on the lower end by Hyundai and Kia which offer more value, better quality, and more options. Plus they build them at a better margin than GM. On the upper end, Toyota and Honda are legendary with their build quality and profitability. GM is making a smart move to cut the Sonic regardless of what a nice niche position its in.
Chazzz
Member
Hyundai and Kia offer far more equipment on their small cars for a lower price, including all the new active safety features that American compacts either never had or you have to move up to the top trim level to get. However the true bargain in this segment the remainder of this year will without a doubt be the Sonic/Cruze as dealers liquidate inventory... I look for up to 6K off Sonic and 8K off a Cruze... Truely a bargain..... https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-new...uze-makes-its-way-through-gm-plant/1820773521 Kinda Sad.....
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dannyg
Member
The latest 2019 JDPowers study of three-year reliability gives the 2016 Sonic the award for most reliable Small Car (beating Hyundai and Nissan). So that’s something.
Chevy Equinox wins in compact SUV, Buick Verano (discontinued!) in Compact, beating Toyota.
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/rating...-jd-power-2019-us-vehicle-dependability-study
Chevy Equinox wins in compact SUV, Buick Verano (discontinued!) in Compact, beating Toyota.
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/rating...-jd-power-2019-us-vehicle-dependability-study
shorebreeze
Member
Indeed, everything in the Sonic from 2014 on has been great from a dependability and quality standpoint. The problems -- the very smooth running but short-lived PCV valve, issues here and there with the cooling system -- are relatively minor and few in number. Orion is one of the top factories anywhere in any company for initial quality, yet it is running at just 34 percent capacity. The waste boggles the mind. Just what does GM think it is doing? I have to also fault dealers; many have provided poor support and made poor choices in deciding what option packages to order with vehicles from the factory....too few turbos, way too few with the driver confidence safety package and so on, too many in the sort of configuration an old lady 20 years ago would have chosen for a purely in-town driver.
All I can say is I hope they have something along the lines of a single vehicle Sonic/Cruze replacement that they've been keeping very, very quiet about. But really, if they'd just market it, they could probably continue to make a go of the Sonic for a couple more years because the basic concept is simply better than other B-class cars, even seven years after its intro, and a serious makeover for the Sonic would be finding a way to make it lighter without weakening it and maybe improving the ride with a better rear suspension but with relatively few other major changes.
shorebreeze
Member
It's not a "smart move." It's basically a capitulation to their own poor salesmanship and customer service. GM has attained better quality with the Sonic than they ever did even with Saturn; they have a quieter and bigger feeling B-class vehicle than anyone else; they have a very fine vehicle too in the Cruze (if not as well executed at the factory as the Sonic), and yet the marketing and support are shockingly bad. Dealers ordering and stocking the wrong option packages for today's market, or (especially on the 2012s and 2013s) failing to fix basic problems; the company providing no meaningful advertising for the vehicle itself, neither traditional TV ads nor adequate internet and social media support.
And what's the end result? GM gives up as a full service car company. Make no mistake about it; this gap weakens public interest in the rest of their lineup and leaves them in a very vulnerable position for the next fuel crisis. And if their game plan is to have electric vehicles fill the gap, where is the dealer support, where is the charging network, and where is the product lineup?
