Red Pill, Blue Pill, Green Pill?

[sx sonic]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the extra fueling for E-85 because it has a "richer" stoiciometric ratio compared to gasoline and not because of its energy content? If you just went after desired energy content than why won't additional fueling work on 87 oct or 93 oct?

Edit, just found a stoich table.
Premium gas- 93 oct - density= 0.755 (87=.74) - Stoich= 14.7 to 1
E-85. Oct= 101.4. - density= 0.783. - Stoich= 9.87 to 1
Hydrogen. - 130 oct-density= 0.090. - Stoich= 34.3 to 1

So based off that chart E-85 requires a 1/3 more fuel just to accomplish complete combustion (all active combounds are used up in combustion). Any more and it's rich, any less and it's lean.

Side note I wanna run Hydrogen. It requires half the fuel of gas just to run at stoic and look at that octane :trend setter:

 

[BNRacing]

We went with #42s because that is what Vince tested on. They solve the fueling problem completely and are not anywhere near being maxed out on E85. They can be turned down to get the same part throttle economy as the stock ones, so there is no need to get an "in between" size.

 

[SPOTWORK]

What kinds of upgrades would I have to do to make the stock injectors max out?
The only thing i can think of is if I bump up the boost past what they can handle.
And if the injector cycle duty can be adjusted there is no reason why they can't be run to kill when floored and for economy when driving easy just like the stock injectors

 

[Eric Smit]

What kinds of upgrades would I have to do to make the stock injectors max out?
The only thing i can think of is if I bump up the boost past what they can handle.
And if the injector cycle duty can be adjusted there is no reason why they can't be run to kill when floored and for economy when driving easy just like the stock injectors

Just a tune.

 

[Eric Smit]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the extra fueling for E-85 because it has a "richer" stoiciometric ratio compared to gasoline and not because of its energy content? If you just went after desired energy content than why won't additional fueling work on 87 oct or 93 oct?

Edit, just found a stoich table.
Premium gas- 93 oct - density= 0.755 (87=.74) - Stoich= 14.7 to 1
E-85. Oct= 101.4. - density= 0.783. - Stoich= 9.87 to 1
Hydrogen. - 130 oct-density= 0.090. - Stoich= 34.3 to 1

So based off that chart E-85 requires a 1/3 more fuel just to accomplish complete combustion (all active combounds are used up in combustion). Any more and it's rich, any less and it's lean.

Side note I wanna run Hydrogen. It requires half the fuel of gas just to run at stoic and look at that octane :trend setter:

also, that's correct. that's why you need bigger injectors.

 

[Macehammer]

We went with #42s because that is what Vince tested on. They solve the fueling problem completely and are not anywhere near being maxed out on E85. They can be turned down to get the same part throttle economy as the stock ones, so there is no need to get an "in between" size.

Thanks.

I figured y'all were thoughtful about it. Sometimes one just needs to be reassured.

 

[Swordsmith]

We went with #42s because that is what Vince tested on. They solve the fueling problem completely and are not anywhere near being maxed out on E85. They can be turned down to get the same part throttle economy as the stock ones, so there is no need to get an "in between" size.

Good to know. That means then that my poor economy when running regular gas is not the fault of the injectors, but rather my own lead foot and/or poor tire choice and/or the cold weather.

I wasn't looking forward to swapping in stock injectors for normal running and back to the 42#'s when I wanted to have fun, but I was starting to suspect they might be costing me. Both Smit and your post here are indicating there's really no down side to the upgrade. Maybe you should stop calling them E85 injectors, since even people running regular gas are reporting higher hp with them.

 

[Preloader]

Read again, he said part-throttle doesn't suffer. But he didn't say anything about idle. I still believe that even on the lowest duty cycle, the larger orifices of the 42#'ers prevent ideal fuel atomization. Picture fuel droplets instead of a pressured mist.

My summation is that if you drive long flat highway miles(eric), you may not see any decrease in mpg with the 42#'s. But mixed city and highway traffic, you're gonna take an mpg hit.

I don't have data to prove that im right. But neither have I seen data to prove me wrong. Vince G's dyno tests were purely power data.

 

[Eric Smit]

I'd agree with that conjecture.

 

[Preloader]

I am PRO 42# injectors, don't get me wrong. It's worth every bit of any loss in efficiency IMO.

 

[Macehammer]

Read again, he said part-throttle doesn't suffer. But he didn't say anything about idle. I still believe that even on the lowest duty cycle, the larger orifices of the 42#'ers prevent ideal fuel atomization. Picture fuel droplets instead of a pressured mist.

My summation is that if you drive long flat highway miles(eric), you may not see any decrease in mpg with the 42#'s. But mixed city and highway traffic, you're gonna take an mpg hit.

I don't have data to prove that im right. But neither have I seen data to prove me wrong. Vince G's dyno tests were purely power data.

We need more data...

 

[Preloader]

A bench test of each injector at its idle duty cycle for 5 minutes. Measure the mass of fuel discharged from each.

However this won't reflect the atomization effects.

 

[sx sonic]

A bench test of each injector at its idle duty cycle for 5 minutes. Measure the mass of fuel discharged from each.

However this won't reflect the atomization effects.

Nor will it show the controllability/reaction time of the injectors at low pulse width. At a certain point larger injectors fail to accurately open at low injectors, like a marathon runner doing the 50 meter dash.

Curious fact for those that don't know. Max duty cycle happens at max torque.

 

[ChrisJ]

I probably missed it, but have you dynod the car on "the red pill" ?

 

[Eric Smit]

I probably missed it, but have you dynod the car on "the red pill" ?

he has not.

 

[SPOTWORK]

Any dyno sheets yet in red pill

 

[FloSonic]

Glad I ran into this thread. I had thought I saw a Cruze running 42# injectors on 91-93oct but wasn't sure. This got me thinking if it was possible to go with the bigger injectors and NOT tune for E85.

I want more HP when playing but still run it as a DD. E85 is not an option considering how often and how far I drive with no pumps near me. I'm not worried about losing a few MPG's but the drivability.

 

[Swordsmith]

A simple conversion to E85 would indeed be a pain given the availability problems with E85 in most places. But if you also install an alcohol sensor, then you can run either one anytime without any fuss or bother.

I run E85 most of the time but end up on gasoline during long trips or occasionally when I have been running errands on a low tank and get nervous without an E85 pump nearby, or during really cold weather (E85 starts rough when it's cold out)

 

[NewZJ]

I installed the 42# injectors and have only run gasoline.

the mileage difference is not really affecting highway but you notice just a slight decrease in city miles. not enough decrease to deter me from them though.

I drive it safe yet fun and can't get below 32mpg.

I'll get the fuel line upgrades and alcohol sensor when I finally find an e85 station close by, Washington state doesn't have many.

 

[Swordsmith]

Two in Seattle, two in Walla Walla, four in Tacoma and a whopping five in Portland. Or are you in the desert side, not the rainforest?