Second gear grinding & remedy

[gsxr1000]

Two weeks ago got a sonic 1.4T with the 6 speed... When i accelerate fairly hard and pretty firmly shift 1-2 at about 5-6,000 RPM it slips past the syncors and kinds for about .5-1 seconds then goes into gear... Same RPM yet with allot more pressure on the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts and it will not grind..

Any one have this happen... I have felt this on older cars nut mine only has 1,000 miles....

Thank YOU for anyone that helps out yah or neh

CREDIT PRELOADER.

So, just to bring this thread back into alignment, we found long ago that if you do the shifter cable alignment via the bulletin posted waaaaaay back in this thread, and drain and refill your m32 with 2.5 qts of a heavier synthetic such as Redline GL 4 75w-90, or equivalent, the 2nd gear grind should be remedied.

 

[Sonic]

Hasn't happened to me, but I'm not revving to 5k or 6 k rpm either. I bought the car for the mpg. If I wanted to speed around and slam shift, I would have kept my WRX.

 

[BoG233]

One of are other members had the same issue . He had to learn to shift it right . It told him a little while to get in sink with the way the tranny shifts it took him about a month and it a smooth out . I don't know if this helps but its all I remember .

 

[gsxr1000]

Sonic- i first noticed when i was pulling out in traffic on the feeder in front of cars going 60 mph.....
Yes i already adjusted my shifting style... it not my trans am lol... i just what to make sure it is not a flaw... thank again

 

[wingman]

Not a flaw, just takes some breaking in and getting use to. I grinded a few times myself on the 1-2 upshift, but it has gone away.

 

[Eric Smit]

I had it too, and then it just went away. Those subtle changes you make on your shift style make a world of difference.

 

[Sonic Boomer]

I had it too, and then it just went away. Those subtle changes you make on your shift style make a world of difference.

Aint that the truth!

I had an older car which no one else could shift.
The car shifted easy for me, but I "grew" along with the transmission's idiosyncrasies.
I was completely unaware that I was doing anything unusual to shift or that another driver would have trouble.
I didn't discover this until I was trying to sell the car!

This was a '72 Fiat 128 - I really don't think a mainstream modern car transmission would stray that far from normal.
Fiats have a reputation for being problematic. They would do stuff like use 3 different starter motors for the same year & model - I push started this car for 5 months through college while the parts dealer used trial and error to get the right one shipped over from Italy!
Despite all of the crap, it was a fun car, but it would have been horrible if I needed it as a reliable daily commuter!

Please pardon the digression...

 

[Sonic]

Push started?!?!? Sorry man, but that is funny!

 

[Sonic Boomer]

Push started?!?!? Sorry man, but that is funny!

No need to apologize, it was great fun, the car became comically personified amongst my friends and neighbors. I guess I had the right attitude.
Happily, I was in a hilly area, so usually I could simply get in, start rolling down a hill and pop the clutch in 2nd.
Disappointingly, the campus police were not very understanding the one time I parked it illegally next to a dorm to have an easy start.
But like I said, the main factor was not really needing the car. I lived on campus and would use it maybe once a week-end. My roommates had cars I could borrow in a pinch. It would be an intolerable POS car for normal adult life!

 

[wasteoffilm]

One of are other members had the same issue . He had to learn to shift it right . It told him a little while to get in sink with the way the tranny shifts it took him about a month and it a smooth out . I don't know if this helps but its all I remember .

That was me, guilty as charged. I was having a few issues:

fresh back injury
not able to always fully press the clutch down
big foot hitting the dead pedal while shifting

I can happily report that I've repaired the loose nut behind the steering wheel problem, but I still don't like how 2nd and 3rd engage. Sometimes they are stubborn and clunk into place. This could be normal, as I have nothing to compare it to.

 

[sdgdf]

Mine has it too, but I've never grinded it. It just has more resistance going into 2nd than the other gears. I don't see how to make it any better, I've tried clutching in and going into 2nd at different RPM's and it doesn't help much. Double-clutch helps, but only a little.

Anyone know what's up with the rev-hang "feature"? Like if you shift at higher RPMs, it'll hang up there between shifts. Could that be getting in the way? Rev-matching doesn't seem to be what I'd expect it to be either, in this car. Its like the synchros want to let it go into gear at higher RPMs between shifts. Normally if you shifted 2-3 at 4000RPM in 2nd, and you knew that'd be 2000 in 3rd, you could go into 3rd when the revs dropped to 2k and it'd be smooth. That smooth spot is higher up, around 3000-3500RPM.

 

[Papasonic]

I have noticed that when shifting at a higher RPM, the engine is slow to respond to a no throttle input; meaning when I let off of the throttle, the engine doesn't slow down proportionate to throttle input. Apparently either the "fly by wire" throttle is slow to respond, or my theory is that the flywheel/clutch assembly is excessively heavy in proportion to the rotating mass of the engine, causing the engine to continue to spin even when the throttle is closed; making a smooth higher RPM shift difficult. When operating at normal/slower engine speeds, shifts are smooth and precise. :blankface:

Papasonic




,

 

[gsxr1000]

Mine has it too, but I've never grinded it. It just has more resistance going into 2nd than the other gears. I don't see how to make it any better, I've tried clutching in and going into 2nd at different RPM's and it doesn't help much. Double-clutch helps, but only a little.

Anyone know what's up with the rev-hang "feature"? Like if you shift at higher RPMs, it'll hang up there between shifts. Could that be getting in the way? Rev-matching doesn't seem to be what I'd expect it to be either, in this car. Its like the synchros want to let it go into gear at higher RPMs between shifts. Normally if you shifted 2-3 at 4000RPM in 2nd, and you knew that'd be 2000 in 3rd, you could go into 3rd when the revs dropped to 2k and it'd be smooth. That smooth spot is higher up, around 3000-3500RPM.

i have noticed to the rpm hangs (or even surges few hundred rpm higher) when you push the clutch in??? can't belive it is fly by wire .. my truck is responsive, the coverete uses it...

I was wondering if the trurbo could cause it to hold rpm????

 

[LS1notFOUND]

high RPM shifts are best served with little clutch engagement and slam away, short throw shifter would be helpful too.

"granny shifting" or the "eco shifting" 1-2 can be hard to be smooth if you don't have the patience to let the RPMs fall to where second would like to start or a long clutch slip.

However a wide open 2-3 to merge is just plain fun..then again 2nd revs high and gets you up to speed quick and 3rd is more than enough from 45mph to get to that 65+ traffic.

Honestly am really impressed with this little cars nimble and umph, higher speeds (in good weather) on the on ramps in general to cheat a bit and pre-plan some moves...sure it tops out where a corvette is less than half-throttle and could just bark at traffic to move with a good exhaust note but its equal to or better (especially turbo) than a lot of whats on the road.

Pardon the ramblings,just never thought I'd actually like a small car like this.

Coming up on ~600 with mine btw.

 

[sdgdf]

sure it tops out where a corvette is less than half-throttle and could just bark at traffic to move with a good exhaust note but its equal to or better (especially turbo) than a lot of whats on the road.

I had a 2000 Camaro Z28, sure the Sonic is slower, but my LS1 never got better than 24 mpg. I can go WOT all day in the Sonic and be hard pressed to get it under 26-27. I sold the Camaro back when gas prices got up to $3/gal, with the A/C on it was getting 16-18 mpg around town.

Last year I had a MR2 Turbo, now that was a fun car . Insane handling AND speed. With only $500 in mods I managed to get 100+ hp out of it, it was 200 stock and when I sold it made 265 rwhp (about 305-310 crank). Being a lighter car, it was faster than the Camaro I had, with less power. It'd do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds. Got rid of that because of the mpg, too, and it wouldn't run on less than 93 octane.

You don't need a lot of power in an everyday car. That's why I bought the Sonic, it gets great gas mileage (and the turbo actually helps with that, unlike my MR2...:blankface: ) and its fun. Best handling FWD car I've ever driven, and a turbo and 6-speed are always guaranteed fun :banana:, even in a weak car.

I can see your point though, which is why I'm saving money for an engine swap in my Fiero. LS1 would be $16k , its what I want but I might have to go with a 3800SC. It'd only be $8000, and with a smaller pulley, headers, chip, and a few other things it'll make 350-400 hp easily anyways. That way I can have both turbocharged and supercharged cars , boost at all times!

 

[LS1notFOUND]

You can probably get a low mileage GM 6.0L and swap in a cam, heads and have a good foundation to build from for far less, the 3800SC is actually heavier than the Ls4 that was in the Grand Prix, Impala SS etc. Had a Grand Prix GTP CompG that I tweaked a bit, miss that car actually.

 

[sdgdf]

I won't have the tools to do it myself for a while, a mechanic friend of mine does this kind of work and I was going to have him do it. He's working on a few projects right now. One is a Fiero with a twin-charged 3800. Supercharger spools the turbo, he's aiming for 30 psi. That's something like 600-700 hp. 500-600 hp is good for high 10's in a Fiero, 600-700 might break into the 9's. Power goes a long way in little cars . Mine has long tube headers, y-pipe, larger t/b, ported upper intake, no cat, no EGR, and a few other things; 165-170 hp and 200-210 torque and it does 0-60 in low 6's. I don't think I need a V8 to get where I wanna get with this car. I would though, if I could get a LSx swapped in for the same price.

 

[nickdom62]

I found a site the other day where they diagnosed this exact problem (however i cannot find it now). it turns out that the clutch did not wear properly with the power plate due to design flaws. if i can find the site again i will post a link. the example they had had been driven 5 thousand miles and the clutch only had wear in 3 quarter sized places. this caused the clutch to slip constantly under any load and also caused the syncros to grind between gears.

 

[nickdom62]

found the page, it's right here on the forum

http://www.sonicownersforum.com/forum/t639/

 

[wasteoffilm]

I'm sorry to report that it happened again this week, twice. I think I was being to quick on the shifts.

I've been taking it much easier on the car lately, and even went a whole week not revving over 2000 RPM. I've decided that was no fun, and didn't improve my mileage enough. 2500 RPM is much more manageable, but 4000 is fun.