M32 Trans Teardown
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Scot
Athletic Supporter
The 2.0T LK9/Saab B207xx/Vaux,Holden, opel Z20NET and the LSJ are the same engine. The LSJ just uses a M62 instead of a Garret or Mitsubishi turbo.
The LSJ does not have much in common with a push rod V8 (LS9) other than the number of valves and the basic method of pressurizing the manifold.
And they had to change the damn bolt pattern, didn't they?
ChrisJ
Active member
I'm sure its already hurting sales not including the few we know that ditched their cars because of the problem.
I'm really getting tired of hearing people say American cars are unreliable and I'm even more tired of GM proving them right.
Instead of engineering and selling us useless traction control they could have put that money into the transmission and the swaybar links. I still think the transmission problems are because GM wants manual transmissions gone. Oh, and while I'm bitching and moaning lets not forget the wonderful hill assist that works 50% of the time making it USELESS.
ChrisJ
Active member
You would think a trans made in Austria would be of pretty good quality. You would also think a trans in a car that is made worldwide would have a pretty good manual trans. Remember far more people overseas drive manual than in the US. If anything, you would think a US made manual would suck.
mitdr774
also a dinner prick
The trans is made to GM specifiactions. The one shipped here may or may not be of the same quality as the one used elsewhere. The Isuzu 5 speed used in Cavalier was a good example of this. Cavaliers were fitted with an inferior component version of the same transmission used in other manufactures vehicles. The NVG and Muncie manuals used in the 80s-early 90s in GM FWD cars were very tough, but when they switched to the Isuzu and then latter Getrag transmissions the durability went down drastically.
ChrisJ
Active member
I had an NVG NV-4500, a rare version with the 6.34:1 1st gear from 1992. It grinded into 3rd often but just seemed to be the way it was. It also shifted terrible in cold weather, like flat out wouldn't go into gear, any gear. A very well known trans rebuilder who specialized in them online said and I quote "just learn how to shift without stepping on the clutch until it warms up". So I did.
But I believe grinding or not, that was an incredibly durable trans.
mitdr774
also a dinner prick
My truck has a NVG3500 in it. It used to be my dads truck and ran for at least 2 years with about 1 quart of fluid in it. I only discovered the issue when I installed a Hurst shifter and checked the fuild level. No shifting issues for me, but the NVG3500 is not as heavy duty as your 4500.
I do agree with your theory that GM no longer wants to sell manual transmission vehicles in this market. It would be far easier for them as a manufacture and would be cheaper. The EPA testing cant be cheap, and it does not have to be as expensive as it is.
GM, please fix the issues caused by your cheapness and willingness to let the manual die in this country. If it gets to a point where I no longer have the option to buy a GM product that I want with a manual transmission, I WILL look to another company.
I do agree with your theory that GM no longer wants to sell manual transmission vehicles in this market. It would be far easier for them as a manufacture and would be cheaper. The EPA testing cant be cheap, and it does not have to be as expensive as it is.
GM, please fix the issues caused by your cheapness and willingness to let the manual die in this country. If it gets to a point where I no longer have the option to buy a GM product that I want with a manual transmission, I WILL look to another company.
ChrisJ
Active member
NV3500 = totally different setup than NV4500 including the slave cylinder configuration. I even think the fluid is different. NV4500 was castrol syntorque where I think NV3500 is some normal fluid.
I agree, if another company like Honda or Toyota offers a manual and GM doesn't, or has a crummy one (kinda like now) I'll go with Honda or Toyota.
mitdr774
also a dinner prick
Isnt the 4500 a cast Iron case? I know it is a completely different animal. A 3500 would never survive behind what the 4500 is bolted to. GM specs Synchromesh fluid for the 1500 and 3500.
In the spring I may try some Amsoil in my F17, but I may be running a M32 by then anyways. AT least if a loose a shift fork tip I will have more gears to choose from than I would if the F17 looses a tip.
In the spring I may try some Amsoil in my F17, but I may be running a M32 by then anyways. AT least if a loose a shift fork tip I will have more gears to choose from than I would if the F17 looses a tip.
ChrisJ
Active member
Isnt the 4500 a cast Iron case? I know it is a completely different animal. A 3500 would never survive behind what the 4500 is bolted to. GM specs Synchromesh fluid for the 1500 and 3500.
In the spring I may try some Amsoil in my F17, but I may be running a M32 by then anyways. AT least if a loose a shift fork tip I will have more gears to choose from than I would if the F17 looses a tip.
Yep.
I believe its a 200lb cast iron case trans.
Chevrolet Customer Care
New member
Update**
I am just waiting for one more response from our internal resources. I will have a statement, hopefully, within the next couple of days.
Erica Tiffany
Chevrolet Customer Care
I am just waiting for one more response from our internal resources. I will have a statement, hopefully, within the next couple of days.
Erica Tiffany
Chevrolet Customer Care
Swordsmith
242hp/252 ft-lbs BNR EFI
Thanks for keeping on top of this Erica. Eagerly awaiting results whatever they may be.
Chevrolet Customer Care
New member
Hello all,
The statement I received from our internal resource is:
"Clash when shifting gears is generally initiated by not completely releasing the clutch when shifting, not allowing the appropriate time for the synchronizer to perform its job or a combination of both. Once damage occurs it will progressively get worse until such time that it will occur on any shift."
Hope this helps you guys! This came from Engineering, I am still awaiting word from our Brand Quality.
Erica Tiffany
Chevrolet Customer Care
The statement I received from our internal resource is:
"Clash when shifting gears is generally initiated by not completely releasing the clutch when shifting, not allowing the appropriate time for the synchronizer to perform its job or a combination of both. Once damage occurs it will progressively get worse until such time that it will occur on any shift."
Hope this helps you guys! This came from Engineering, I am still awaiting word from our Brand Quality.
Erica Tiffany
Chevrolet Customer Care
theenico
New member
Classic response right there. Put it back on the customer.
Most of us know how to shift quite well. So really they're saying that they still haven't reached the magic number of concerns per thousand vehicles built for it to be worthy of so much as a P.I. document.
mitdr774
also a dinner prick
Really not a shock. I guess its better to blame the customer than admit using low quality materials inside the transmission. It gets worse due to the plastic shift fork tips wearing down or falling off and damaging the synchros. Not the first GM trans to have this issue. The fork tip issue is a well know one, and it goes back over a decade.
ChrisJ
Active member
Classic response right there. Put it back on the customer.
Most of us know how to shift quite well. So really they're saying that they still haven't reached the magic number of concerns per thousand vehicles built for it to be worthy of so much as a P.I. document.
I've been driving stick since 1987 and also drive a non-synchronized 1931 Ford model A quite often without grinding.
The only thing the response from engineering has done is annoy me and put my loyalty towards GM at risk. When I worked for Bosch they used to say once you lose a customer its almost impossible to get them back. When will GM realize this?
mitdr774
also a dinner prick
Honestly, I feel as though GM does not want to sell any manual transmission vehicles in this market. Look at all the products that are only available with an automatic, or launch as auto only and then the next year maybe offer a manual.
I think GM autos are garbage. Sure they hold up for a while, but I have come across too many with issues. I also do NOT want an automatic.
I have owned only GM products so far, but if the current trend continues that will change. I come from a GM family but my loyalty is going to be tested when it is time for another vehicle.
I think GM autos are garbage. Sure they hold up for a while, but I have come across too many with issues. I also do NOT want an automatic.
I have owned only GM products so far, but if the current trend continues that will change. I come from a GM family but my loyalty is going to be tested when it is time for another vehicle.
sx sonic
New member
Agreed
This is what I got out of it.
SOF "DEAR GM, more than trivial number of us have a moderate grinding condition, even for experienced drivers. We've torn down the trans and found some likely culprits, one of which is a the shift fork tips that are of poor design. This has been validated by several transmission experts both here and overseas.
Would you please redesign some parts of your trans. This can be done and be goog for your ROI (return on investment)."
GM engineering "You don't know how to drive".
I wasn't expecting GM to accept blame but I was not expecting such a dense response. I find their response illogical, offensive, and counter productive, and am quite irked.
Erica- I appreciate your efforts, and let me speak for all of this by saying none of this is aimed at you or our other Customer Care reps. We appreciate you working on our behalf.
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