New product!

[MPFab]

Since you decided to bluntly state about our product, which you clearly stated you never had, we will chime in here. Claiming so many vibs, but you don't and never had our product, sounds like a fast bash to gain market. Your 1 mount will not be as effective than replacing the two other mounts more firm. Zzp, ttr, any brand, don't care... You just can't add a new mount and forget about the originals.

1 you cannot have a product work Better AND and Less vibs. Think of what mounts do and how they work. Your mount system may have less vibs but there is no way it controls drivetrain movement better. You still have the stock mounts allowing them to move around.

Furthermore you should really advise your customers of structural issues your application may result in.

1 that part of the trans case is NOT designed to be a structural mounting point. Shift hard and a good chance the trans case WILL crack.

2 you are bolting to the front radiator support area. As soon as a customers hits something (a deer example) they will cause this weak member you are bolting to extend the force into the trans case and they will be out a $3000 transmission. Think of worse yet how the effect would be on a head on crash.

Sure hope you have good product liability insurance. Taking a lot of risk making a new mounting point on a car.

You know, my reply to his question wasn't intended to bash your product. I was simply answering as if we were talking on the street, and not on a public forum. I should have selected my words more carefully. I apologize for that.
I don't have first hand experience your product, and I stated that. What I do have are customers who have told me about the vibration the current aftermarket mounts have caused in their Sonic, and have read numerous "for sale" threads in which people who bought other mounts, have them up for sale not long after purchase. These reasons have kept me from moving away from the stock mounts, and developing this one.
Your statement about the trans not being made for this type of mount is incorrect. The Cruze, has this same configuration, and the Sonic/Cruze transmission has a machined spot with threaded holes where the mount attaches. It IS in fact made for this type of mount and is incredibly robust in the mounting area. My Sonic makes over 300hp/300tq. I have 255 width tires on 9.5" wheels, and have had no issues with aggressive shifting damaging the transmission. The transmission isn't going to break at that spot.
I'm not re-engineering the engine/transmission mounting system. I'm offering a similar mounting system to what GM already offers on the Cruze. You proclaiming that unintended damage could possibly occur from an impact with my mount is absurd and purely speculation. The same could be said about your rigid mounts potentially damaging the engine case, frame rail, or transmission because your stiffer bushings transmitting the impact directly into the structure they're mounted to.
I don't want to get into a pissing match about who's mounts are better. I would rather my customers decide. I'll remove your company name from my previous post.

 

[hammrdwn510]

opcorn:

 

[ecohauler]

What about the concern about the mounting point on the frame? I haven't opened it up to look, but from my experience radiator supports aren't exactly the strongest part of most unibodies. Is it possible that that's why the Cruze has a mount there and the Sonic doesn't? Is that point strong enough to avoid degrading over time?

Disclaimer: I'm not taking sides or trying to bash your product. This concern was already raised, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like it answered. I know you make quality parts, and asking questions now could save you and everyone else a lot of trouble in the long run.

 

[NewZJ]

I'm assuming that if MPFab hasn't broken the radiator support yet, I won't be able to. he doesn't drive his car like normal people, he pushes it to the limit.

 

[CheapFuneral]

Not to mention he also has the most hp/tq on a sonic. If it's not twisting at 300hp it's not gonna twist on >200 hp motors.


**** you auto correct!

 

[MPFab]

What about the concern about the mounting point on the frame? I haven't opened it up to look, but from my experience radiator supports aren't exactly the strongest part of most unibodies. Is it possible that that's why the Cruze has a mount there and the Sonic doesn't? Is that point strong enough to avoid degrading over time?

Disclaimer: I'm not taking sides or trying to bash your product. This concern was already raised, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like it answered. I know you make quality parts, and asking questions now could save you and everyone else a lot of trouble in the long run.

The mount is attached to the steel reinforced cross member that bolts to the unibody not a rad core support as most of us know it. The issue was raised by a vendor who thought I was bashing their product by saying it caused vibration. Their response appears to be aimed more at scaring you guys off rather than actual facts. Look at the photos in the first post. The subframe is black. It is reinforced steel and supports the engine, suspension and steering components. It's completely up to the task of an addition mounting point for the transmission.

 

[TurboTechRacing]

Scaring people off? No we have concerns as to the mounting point; as should other members. We are a community of Sonic owners, we all share the same passion. It is no different than any other product on the market with air flow/intake/exhaust/etc. Everything should be explored to have them best product support we can all share. If anyone was trying to scare anyone off it was your claims of so many selling our mounts due to vibs. Look in the classifieds, we have over the last 3 days, there is a select few TTR mounts in the last 6 months. No more than any other good selling product on the market today.

When we ship 5-7 mounts each week on average (500+ units since introduced), it is hard for some not to come up for sale. Just like all the other items for sale, intakes, exhaust, etc. People sell cars and change their plans.

Also there will be those who will want complete engine control and get BOTH products, yours and ours.

Honestly, have to state you are still taking a huge risk asking members to drill into the steel member you are referring to. Customers should really check with their GM dealer before drilling into a component. Their warranty, as what you are having them do it NOT reversible by drilling. If it is as "structural" as you claim, it means even more concerns, weakening it by drilling holes.

We are all for supporting the community, as you also are, but with safety in mind. This is the main reason why we are posting. Members have choices, and it is a community to help everyone out.

We will not produce a product as you have developed, so don't worry; we will not copy your concept, nor produce anything similar. We believe you do have something for the community. However consider finding a way to mount your product from existing holes or mounting points.

As far as vibs go, you are using a 75 shore A durameter bushing as you have stated. Ours is only 70 Shore A, which is LESS/Softer durameter, and is not as hard. So by claiming vib differences, on a product you have only used, please be kind to everyone, and not judge other products; unless you have proven 3rd party independent testing results.

If you would use just our lower trans mount VS just your new product; we believe by design and locations, both products would provide similar movement control and similar vibs, which is basically none on just our lower mount and we assume on yours also.

If you add in our upper mount, you are not comparing apples to apples; as our upper mount with our lower mount, will control more movement. You will also have more vibs. We have a whole additional mounting point being controlled of the motion.

As stated earlier the engine is allowed to swing/pendulum on the two outside mounts. The lower trans mount GM has is what stops the wind up rotation; as your product would also do the same thing. However with just a lower trans or just your product, you still have all the allowable movement in the other factory mounts.

 

[krakenredbeard]

I'm not gonna go off on a tangent but honestly ttr I don't see you on ddm about their rear brace having to be drilled in.

Or is this strictly because you feel not justified by walkers comments which I don't think anyone hear feels were malicious.

In fact there have been loads that have felt it was too much I personally like the vibes from your product lol. I just think this bickering back and forth over an obviously stated side effect from more than just walker is a bit ridiculous.

I'm personally probably going to end up with both. As I already have the ttr mounts.

I also recall walker stating you could have this welded in place which id imagine gm did on the cruze.

Just my .02c from two vendors I like. Hate to see it go down like this.

 

[sonic_braaappp]

....I just want the turbo upgrade kit xD

 

[TurboTechRacing]

I'm not gonna go off on a tangent but honestly ttr I don't see you on ddm about their rear brace having to be drilled in.

Or is this strictly because you feel not justified by walkers comments which I don't think anyone hear feels were malicious.

In fact there have been loads that have felt it was too much I personally like the vibes from your product lol. I just think this bickering back and forth over an obviously stated side effect from more than just walker is a bit ridiculous.

I'm personally probably going to end up with both. As I already have the ttr mounts.

I also recall walker stating you could have this welded in place which id imagine gm did on the cruze.

Just my .02c from two vendors I like. Hate to see it go down like this.

Only reason we know about this and posting was because it was brought to our attention about MPFab using our product as a negative to promote his, and stating about all the vibs ours makes.

We then got looking into the said product, and were a little amazed at the recommendation the said vendor was doing. Take it as a grain of salt if you wish, we are just asking valid questions. I don't think DDM brought us into their product info as we also know nothing of the said item.

Welding is a whole different method of securing. Issue is not everyone can do it, but structurally it should not then weaken the existing member. Bolting/drilling is different. As stated everyone chooses what they want, we just want to make sure the community understands the ramifications of drilling/auxiliary mounting on a factory warranty car, and the potential safety issues.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I already have both TTR mounts and love the vibrations. I also will be picking up MPFAB's mount when it's available.

 

[krakenredbeard]

Well then to be fair shouldn't you run over to ddm vendor forum and warn everyone about that? Regardless if they brought you into their product or not? Safety is safety right?

 

[TurboTechRacing]

Well then to be fair shouldn't you run over to ddm vendor forum and warn everyone about that? Regardless if they brought you into their product or not? Safety is safety right?

We stay out of other vendors products as long as they do the same to us. We have not looked into every product every company makes, as stated we only know of this from PM's we have received.

Also it sounds like theirs is a "brace" increasing the structure of the car. NOT using an existing member, to use as a structural member, to support the drivetrain. Big difference if this is the case.

We offer a K brace for the cavalier/sunfires which adds structure to the front arms of the unibody. Again ADD structure, not Use structure to do "something else"

 

[brasschucker357]

Take this from a consumer's standpoint. Many members have expressed concerns and dissatisfaction with the marked increase in vibrations. Let's not beat around the bush here. The TTR mounts DO vibrate. Period. Some people don't mind this, others HATE it. Walker has developed another option which is already in use on the Cruze. Different strokes for different folks.

I agree with the stated observation that TTRs response came off as belligerent, and seemingly intent to scare off potential buyers. This was most likely NOT the intent, but it came off that way. Walker has been nothing short of professional, and this man does excellent work. Why so much hostility?

 

[krakenredbeard]

Yet if its a safety issue and we are all into this together doing the right thing is doing the right thing regardless of staying in or out of anything.

So your admitting that only reason your hear is to defend your product and potentially wreck his. Even tho he clearly stated he wasn't trying to bash your product just mentioned side effect you guys are well aware of.

But even tho ddm is drilling for their brace your not gonna say anything safety or not because they didn't down your product.

I mean come on. Really?!?!?? Seems kinda silly and all this could have been settled outside of a public forum emailing walker directly instead of **** stiring and trying to ruin business for everyone cause you gotta realize people are gonna take your response to this just as bad as his initial talking about your product...

Yet the claim is we are all in this together.

Guess a lil dick swinging goes a long way...

Professionalism and all. If you really want to be the bigger person asking him his issue directly instead of hear would have been a much better way to go about it.

Lol this is beyond hysterical now. Panties in a bunch and all.

I'm fairly confident had it went that way walker would have made a apology about the reference if he realize you took offense to it. As he already did publicly this way.

 

[sonic_braaappp]

If the product works then it works. If people aren't ready to do some drilling and play ball, then they need to just stop worrying about modifying cars. The best results have RARELY been achieved when taking the easier/safer route. Just my opinion, but if people aren't ready for the possible consequences that come with modding a car, just find a different hobby. #endrant

 

[krakenredbeard]

Ttr for the 3rd time you've stated the facts we get it.

But your not answering the questions being ask just stating the same stuff over and over.

Fact is safety plays zero factors in this cause if it did you'd say something to ddm about drilling the rear brace.

Here is the facts as we see them.

Walker markets a product. He mentions his will have less vibes. Some peebrain takes it the wrong way and "informs you guys" instead of being professional and emailing him and asking what it's about and explains just your lower mount and what his product does is virtually the same idea in theory.

You go on a belligerent tangent and now your just repeating yourself over and over.

You may have damaged a few potential buyers for Morgan but your obvious lack of professionalism may have done more harm than good for your company.

Bottom line you want good vibrations get the ttr mounts and this for overall racekor feel.

Don't want racekor feel get just ttr Lower mounts. If you want a little tingle in your balls about 5 more in polymer stiffness get walkers new product.

Boom I think we are done here. ;0p

 

[brasschucker357]

Walker's method isn't as much about stiffening the mounts as it is about removing the propensity of the engine/transmission to twist off its natural axis under high load. Its all in the placement. Think of it as Aikido vs boxing. Instead of brute force applied in the wrong places/not enough places, a gentler force is being spread out among the proper mounting points.

 

[sonic_braaappp]

Tingle in muh bawlz?! I'm game.

 

[krakenredbeard]

Ttr because it's obvious that safety and being in this together as you claim is not really the case. Your the one on counter attack here even tho he clearly stated several times he had not meant to bash your product but offer another option.

The ddm rear brace issue has been talked about pretty righteously in the forum if you where active enough to car about safety and being in this together you'd also know about this product. The ideas are still the same.

Drilling is bad according to you so drilling is bad anywhere.

Safety is safety

And we are all in this together.

Product bashing aside. Do the right thing

And the popcorn is good from where I'm at. Would you like me to send you some?