Turbo "Kit" questions
- Thread starter MPFab
- Start date
firstorbit84
New member
This. I don't understand why a turbo manifold and downpipe made for a specific series of turbos can't be made available for well under $1k.
Look at this product for the Fiat 500 Abarth for $400:
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...&Product_Code=ATP-FIAT-010&Category_Code=FIAT
Use an internally wastegated turbo, and the stock diverter valve (if possible).
I think that even with no other hardware, just a manifold, turbo, downpipe, injectors and a tune (and valve springs if necessary) should get you well over 200 whp on pump gas, and a much better powerband than stock. That should be doable for around $2k total. That's all we want.
Add all the other fun stuff for another $1k-$1500 and you'll break 250 whp. Add ethanol and you're in preloader territory.
sonic24740
Zippy
His downpipe alone is over half the 1000 your asking for..
Time and fabrication for the manifold I would assume would be around 1000 itself...
And I like preloaders comment about what turbo would be appropriate
Preloader
The M32 Martyr
Unfortunately it would be more involved. There will need to be a charge pipe connector involved to hook the compressor discharge to the stock I/C if you opt out of MPF's I/C package.
The problem is coming up with a simple kit to please everyone, rather than creating a kit with an extensive option list.
A $1000 or less mani/dp kit for a chosen brand of turbos would be awesome. But in case you guys haven't been following MPFab's handy work, the stuff is master craftsmen quality and it is unlikely he'd be able to mass produce this stuff to the degree required to drive prices below $1000.
If that is a problem for you, you should entertain "chinese made eBay options".
Not trying to be abrasive, just trying to defend the reason why this ain't gonna be some cheap bare minimum kit option. And hopefully deter this thread from derailing and losing momentum in a productive direction.
Someone is welcome to start a $400 Turbo kit demand thread, and see where it goes. Hey you never know.
The problem is coming up with a simple kit to please everyone, rather than creating a kit with an extensive option list.
A $1000 or less mani/dp kit for a chosen brand of turbos would be awesome. But in case you guys haven't been following MPFab's handy work, the stuff is master craftsmen quality and it is unlikely he'd be able to mass produce this stuff to the degree required to drive prices below $1000.
If that is a problem for you, you should entertain "chinese made eBay options".
Not trying to be abrasive, just trying to defend the reason why this ain't gonna be some cheap bare minimum kit option. And hopefully deter this thread from derailing and losing momentum in a productive direction.
Someone is welcome to start a $400 Turbo kit demand thread, and see where it goes. Hey you never know.
Preloader
The M32 Martyr
I suppose it may be a good idea for me to stay out of this thread, as I already have an investment elsewhere.....
But maybe someone should throw out a couple popular turbo brands they'd like to see a kit for and see if that'll help dial in the Mani and DP variations down to a manageable number to make a vote on. Lot's of discussion on selection here:
http://www.sonicownersforum.com/forum/aftermarket-crowd/8092-turbo-selection-sizing-turbo.html
On that note, I'll stay back and just spectate. This is currently one of the more exciting threads to follow..... Pending the "I just installed the MPFab IC kit" thread that I'm hoping to see pop up very soon.
But maybe someone should throw out a couple popular turbo brands they'd like to see a kit for and see if that'll help dial in the Mani and DP variations down to a manageable number to make a vote on. Lot's of discussion on selection here:
http://www.sonicownersforum.com/forum/aftermarket-crowd/8092-turbo-selection-sizing-turbo.html
On that note, I'll stay back and just spectate. This is currently one of the more exciting threads to follow..... Pending the "I just installed the MPFab IC kit" thread that I'm hoping to see pop up very soon.
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firstorbit84
New member
It doesn't need to flow better than stock. It just needs to fit a bigger turbo.
The k03 idea isn't bad. I still like the map of the gt2256
That's the things most people don't get.
His stuff is top tier ... See this level of quality on lambos and stuff hahah he is good and that always brings up the price.
You guys want a cheap manifold for a turbo I'll make you one for a couple hundred bucks but it won't be complete and it won't be pretty and it will probably crack in half after 3 months
firstorbit84
New member
Didn't you already make one?
sx sonic
New member
Maybe, but I'm doubting a bigger turbo With a similar manifold will raise power potential that much over what's currently possible with the sonic (bolt ons + E-85).
Once the mani is at full constipation a bigger turbo is not going to help much, since avail turbine energy has already been reached.
Certainly if one were making the large investment in an aftermarket turbo and neccesary hardware they'd spend a few hundred more $$$ to buy a decent header/manifold that is effecient and far removed from being the choke point in the system.
Or spend less to have the stocker cut and a flange welded on for the turbo of personal desire. I don't imagine that'd be much of an undertaking.
Preloader
The M32 Martyr
I said I'd stay way but it's hard.
Honestly, I think the stock mani isn't particularly restrictive for the most part. It's the turbine portion that is the problem. I know you've seen it sx.
So removing that from the equation and adding a larger turbo should open up the door for sizable gains.
1364cc doesn't need large oversized tube headers. It's almost the contrary, you want the exhaust leaving the head to stay at high velocity til it gets passed the turbine, then you want a super low restriction, like a 3" DP. Getting that velocity load from a small displacement is one of the few advantages of having such a small displacement.
Honestly, I think the stock mani isn't particularly restrictive for the most part. It's the turbine portion that is the problem. I know you've seen it sx.
So removing that from the equation and adding a larger turbo should open up the door for sizable gains.
1364cc doesn't need large oversized tube headers. It's almost the contrary, you want the exhaust leaving the head to stay at high velocity til it gets passed the turbine, then you want a super low restriction, like a 3" DP. Getting that velocity load from a small displacement is one of the few advantages of having such a small displacement.
Scot
Athletic Supporter
Pending the "I just installed the MPFab IC kit" thread that I'm hoping to see pop up very soon.
LOL, I"m trying to find the time!
SONIC1.4
New member
Hmmm, well all I'm going to say is I prefer quality. Quality comes with a cost. Itd be cheaper in the long run because its going to last longer as opposed to replacing parts every few months. Now that will really add up. I'm sure there's a happy medium somewhere in there, just have to find it. I think Pre has the right idea.
sonic24740
Zippy
i have a friend that got a cheap manifold off of ebay.. don't know exactly who made it.. it was for this focus and it cracked after three take days.. had it fixed then it crack in another spot even worse.. in the long run it wasnt worth the 500 something he saved buying it..
what i am looking for is a tubular set up.. I want it too look good and function well.
as for the what turbo i am not really sure.. as this is my first adventure with a turbo car so all this is new to me..
what i am looking for is a tubular set up.. I want it too look good and function well.
as for the what turbo i am not really sure.. as this is my first adventure with a turbo car so all this is new to me..
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Regardless of what comes from this thread, I can build you anything you want for your Sonic...
SONIC1.4
New member
Regardless of what comes from this thread, I can build you anything you want for your Sonic...
Build me a turbo kit
Preloader
The M32 Martyr
Regardless of what comes from this thread, I can build you anything you want for your Sonic...
Cough*Cough* Independent Rear Suspension Conversion Kit *Cough*Cough
rdss
Junior Member
This would be pretty crazy! What's under the rear of the AWD Encore?
I like the arbitrary $295 discount...
If you just buy the parts I offer, which is:
Intake $250
Intercooler w/ charge piping $650(current discount)
Anaconda $560
Trifecta Full Tune $315
That totals up to $1775 before shipping.
That falls right in the "sweet spot" and gives a HUGE gain in power/torque.
For most, this is more than enough, which is why I offer these parts (minus the tune). From my testing, that combo will get every available pony out of the stock turbo, and do it on pump gas.:banana:
Some people will, however, want more...hence the reason for this thread.
I was just making an example, I know that the discount amount is not going to be $295. I'm not the one selling the parts so I have no idea what kind of margins you are working with. I was simply offering a suggestion on what you could offer to your customers.
firstorbit84
New member
Wow. That's a good idea. Is our manifold the same as the Cruze's?
If so then it looks like the stock turbo + manifold is easily available on Ebay for $300-$400. Add another $50 for the flange, and $50-$100 to have someone cut and weld it.
Then you'll still need compressor outlet piping or adapters and maybe some intake piping or adapters ($75-$150); custom downpipe or modified downpipe ($200-$300); Turbo ($700-$1000); oil feed/return lines ($100); tune $300; injectors ($300) and maybe valve springs (don't know exact prices for these lets say another $150).
So, without any other exhaust, intake, intercooler, or BOV upgrades you're looking at $2100-$2900 for a full "kit" depending on some of the prices and if you need valve springs. That's also doing all the bolt-on work yourself. If you can do the welding yourself then you could probably get it under $2k or right at $2k.
The point is that just for the turbo and manifold you're looking at $1100 to $1500, which I think is pretty reasonable.
@MPFab: Why not just take stock manifolds and weld on flanges and sell them for $500-$600? You can even have an additional $200-$300 core charge built in where people can send back their old manifolds to get a discount, so they're basically just paying for a quality flange and weld and shipping. This way you won't have to do much R&D, and then everything else you sell will basically be add-ons for the "kit," or they can source stuff elsewhere if they like.