Water temp gauge install

[Blue Moon Sonic]

It doesn't look like a particularly complex piece... if nobody wanted to spend the time modeling it for CNC, I think it could be done with just a flange + couple pieces of pipe. It wouldn't have the sweet curve anymore though, that's for sure.... if I was making it.

I'm seeing that low volume parts like this on the Sonic are a bit of a non-starter though. Maybe I'll surf ebay and find a used one and see what can be done.

I could always just replace mine before failure starts to happen and send you my old one. Just need to wait until I'm done logging my tune revision for Jerry. Should hopefully have that to him during my lunch break today since he sent me a new file last night.

 

[Gimpster]

I just looked and these are like $13 shipped including the temperature sender:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Thermo...=282424396845&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851z

I just ordered one and will swap and play around with my old one. That temp sender not being threaded make things kinda annoying.

That said, at $13, you could buy 3-4 of these and basically just swap them every couple years (until the end of the cars life) as preventative maintenance during coolant flushes and be way ahead of the price of anything that can be fabricated.

 

[Blue Moon Sonic]

I just looked and these are like $13 shipped including the temperature sender:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Thermo...=282424396845&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851z

I just ordered one and will swap and play around with my old one. That temp sender not being threaded make things kinda annoying.

That said, at $13, you could buy 3-4 of these and basically just swap them every couple years (until the end of the cars life) as preventative maintenance during coolant flushes and be way ahead of the price of anything that can be fabricated.

Yeah, but figure in labor and time with each replacement procedure. It's going to take at least a few hours every time just to do this and this job easily takes a few hours to complete. So even at the minimum labor rates, your already looking at around 180 for labor. If a billet aluminum one is made, then you'd never have to worry about doing the procedure over and over again. The only maintenance would be to just flush the system and refill it. Let's face it, most people who daily drive this car won't want to have to do this every couple year's or have the time to do so and not everyone is able to work on their own vehicle.

 

[Gimpster]

I bet the average ownership of a Sonic is 24-36 months. The amount of almost new (well, to me) Sonic's on the lot kinda tell the story there. Most people are SUV/CUV/Truck crazy these days.

Anyway, I digress

 

[dbratboy92]

It doesn't look like a particularly complex piece... if nobody wanted to spend the time modeling it for CNC, I think it could be done with just a flange + couple pieces of pipe. It wouldn't have the sweet curve anymore though, that's for sure.... if I was making it.

I'm seeing that low volume parts like this on the Sonic are a bit of a non-starter though. Maybe I'll surf ebay and find a used one and see what can be done.

I can send you the broken one from my pic


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[Tormach]

Tell me about it, I did this replacement in the dead of winter at night while it was snowing.. took about 2hrs, but man was I glad that engine was still warm as well as the coolant.

Nothing like emergency repairs just so you can get to work in the morning.

Personally, I would rather it was made of metal. Yes the plastic piece is cheap and relatively easy to replace.. but the way mine failed not to mention hidden from view and the way db's failed as well, unless your really inspecting it and feeling the hoses and connections, you wont see it until it complete breaks and fails. :blankface:

 

[Gimpster]

I went ahead and bought that one on eBay for the whopping $13 shipped. Thank you though!

I can send you the broken one from my pic


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[Blue Moon Sonic]

I bet the average ownership of a Sonic is 24-36 months. The amount of almost new (well, to me) Sonic's on the lot kinda tell the story there. Most people are SUV/CUV/Truck crazy these days.

Anyway, I digress

To most people, these car's are entry car's that allows them to get credit built to get into a better car. The SUV/CUV/Truck craze just makes it worse.

Tell me about it, I did this replacement in the dead of winter at night while it was snowing.. took about 2hrs, but man was I glad that engine was still warm as well as the coolant.

Nothing like emergency repairs just so you can get to work in the morning.

Personally, I would rather it was made of metal. Yes the plastic piece is cheap and relatively easy to replace.. but the way mine failed not to mention hidden from view and the way db's failed as well, unless your really inspecting it and feeling the hoses and connections, you wont see it until it complete breaks and fails.

Yeah see, I agree on this one. Having plastic components for anything critical is a big no no.

 

[dbratboy92]

Yeah, but figure in labor and time with each replacement procedure. It's going to take at least a few hours every time just to do this and this job easily takes a few hours to complete. So even at the minimum labor rates, your already looking at around 180 for labor. If a billet aluminum one is made, then you'd never have to worry about doing the procedure over and over again. The only maintenance would be to just flush the system and refill it. Let's face it, most people who daily drive this car won't want to have to do this every couple year's or have the time to do so and not everyone is able to work on their own vehicle.

With the right tools this can be done the second time in under 20 minutes plus coolant bleed.


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[Blue Moon Sonic]

With the right tools this can be done the second time in under 20 minutes plus coolant bleed.


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This assumes the avg backyard mechanic has these tools. Definitely a worthwhile investment buying the correct tools.

 

[dbratboy92]

With the right tools this can be done the second time in under 20 minutes plus coolant bleed.


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Extensions and swivel sockets. You can pick up a gear wrench set of swivel sockets for 60 bucks at advanced auto and it will cut the time on most jobs on this car 10 fold. The torque spec is super low on all the bolts you can get away with a regular 8 or 10mm socket in most of the e torques fasteners. If they are really tight use an E socket to break the
Loose so you don't strip the heads but In most cases that won't be necessary. If you strip one tightening it with a normal socket you over tightened it.


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[dbratboy92]

This assumes the avg backyard mechanic has these tools. Definitely a worthwhile investment buying the correct tools.

True but the one tool that would make most jobs a ton faster and easier is this you can get them at advanced auto and any other place that carries gearwrench. And most of the e torques fasteners on the 1.4 and 1.8 have such low torque specs you don't need to worry about stripping the heads.

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[SuperFudd]

As for the oil temp gauge idea, I had a '63 Pontiac Tempest/Lemans with a 4 banger that had no water temp gauge, only an idiot light. I installed a oil temperature sensor and gauge. The sensor was part of the drain plug. That worked fine until I drove over a muffler shearing the connector off of the plug.
By the way, the engine had no oil filter.

 

[dbratboy92]

As for the oil temp gauge idea, I had a '63 Pontiac Tempest/Lemans with a 4 banger that had no water temp gauge, only an idiot light. I installed a oil temperature sensor and gauge. The sensor was part of the drain plug. That worked fine until I drove over a muffler shearing the connector off of the plug.

By the way, the engine had no oil filter.

I don't think most people realize how little protection you really get from an oil filter. Yes they catch tiny contaminants in your oil however, your oil is pushed through your filter by your oil pump rather than being sucked through. Therefore anything with actual potential to damage your lubricated surfaces like your bearings first needs to pass through your oil pump before being caught in your filter. If you have never actually opened up an oil pump it looks similar to a rotary engine in the way it functions. And the tolerances are exceptionally close. About the same as your bearing journals. Therefore any objects like a grain of sand that will be caught in your filter will first pass through your pump causing damage there possibly leading to low oil pressure and dry bearings. The purpose of your oil filter is to 1. Stop repeated circulation of damaging particles, and 2 catch particles that can clog return oil passages. The real hero in the system is the screen on your sump. Which stops any large items from being picked up in the first place. And keeping them in your oil pan to be drained out with your next oil change. With modern oils having good detergents that hold dirt to be drained out with oil changes. And sludge build up not being a problem in modern engines. (If it is in yours your not changing your oil frequently enough) I modern engine could still survive without an oil filter. Although I don't recommend this. But it's a thought when your purchasing that 10 dollar oil filter vs the 3 dollar filter. If the stuff being caught by your oil filter was that damaging your oil pump would of failed long ago.


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[dbratboy92]

I don't think most people realize how little protection you really get from an oil filter. Yes they catch tiny contaminants in your oil however, your oil is pushed through your filter by your oil pump rather than being sucked through. Therefore anything with actual potential to damage your lubricated surfaces like your bearings first needs to pass through your oil pump before being caught in your filter. If you have never actually opened up an oil pump it looks similar to a rotary engine in the way it functions. And the tolerances are exceptionally close. About the same as your bearing journals. Therefore any objects like a grain of sand that will be caught in your filter will first pass through your pump causing damage there possibly leading to low oil pressure and dry bearings. The purpose of your oil filter is to 1. Stop repeated circulation of damaging particles, and 2 catch particles that can clog return oil passages. The real hero in the system is the screen on your sump. Which stops any large items from being picked up in the first place. And keeping them in your oil pan to be drained out with your next oil change. With modern oils having good detergents that hold dirt to be drained out with oil changes. And sludge build up not being a problem in modern engines. (If it is in yours your not changing your oil frequently enough) I modern engine could still survive without an oil filter. Although I don't recommend this. But it's a thought when your purchasing that 10 dollar oil filter vs the 3 dollar filter. If the stuff being caught by your oil filter was that damaging your oil pump would of failed long ago.


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Your money would be much better spent on either a higher grade oil, or even better more frequent oil changes. I use the oem AC Delco 55594651 filter with whatever full synthetic 5-30 happens to be on sale. Usually pennsoil, Mobil 1, Valvoline, and occasionally royal purple when it drops below $35 for 5 quarts. And I change my oil every 3000 miles or so. Working in the dealer I see the second most common cause of turbo failure on the 1.4 is a clogged oil feed line causing the bearings to burn out. I only see this in customers that follow their oil life monitor. The customers that change their oil every 3000 or so have turbo failure from a crack around the waste gate valve. I don't have a suggestion for avoiding that. I am on my third turbo due to a cracked exhaust housing. But haven't replaced my oil feed tube because it hasn't been blocked.


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[suitcasejefferson]

I would like to install a temperature gauge, and would appreciate any information or advice from someone who has done it as to the type of gauge and where to put it. I'm thinking one of the hoses that attach to the water outlet pipe assembly.

I bought my car used from my sister who bought it new. She didn't take very good care of it. The first thing I did after starting to change the oil every few hundred miles to clean out the engine was to remove the Dexkill. Fortunately it looks like I got to it before it plugged everything up.

I did have the water outlet pipe assembly fail, but it was just a pinhole leak. I got a new one from the dealer for $47. The parts guy pretty much admitted it was a poor quality part. However, it is not simple. It would be extremely difficult to reproduce, probably impossible to do with a CNC mill. You would need to cast it, which would require a very complex mold. You would need to sell a lot of them in order to pay for the tooling and still make a profit. Hopefully getting rid of the Dexkill will make the new one last a bit longer.

I plan to keep my Sonic and maintain it properly (far more often than the book says) for as long as it lasts. I bought mine used for $6000, and believe I got my moneys worth. The original owner paid over $18000 cash for it. They lost $12,000 in 4 years. If you financed it, it would be a LOT more. I am 58, and have plenty of credit, I could finance a new Corvette if I wanted to. But I just have a problem paying huge amounts of money for cars that will be worth almost nothing in a few years. I wait till they depreciate then pay cash, and do not pay full coverage insurance. I save a fortune that way, and being a mechanic I can usually keep them going for quite some time. I can't imagine paying $30,000+ for a car, and financing it.

 

[Natesriv]

I used the upper radiator hose (and I've bought a new one as a spare JIC). Ran the gauge into a gauge pod on top of the dash.

 

[Llia]

You could just do a block off plate with one main threaded port for a hose nipple. From there the rest of the hoses can be plumbed from existing generic parts. Probably be messy though. Would also need to find a suitable threaded replacement for the stock sensor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqZmhZTjslk

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[Gimpster]

That's a really good idea actually, I might have a slight tweak on that. I also own a Miata, and we have a vendor (couple actually) that have CNC'd coolant fittings that use ORB barb fittings for the hose. Typically used to change the outlet direction to fit larger turbochargers on the cars.

Here is one example of what I mean: https://squareup.com/store/hawleyperformance/item/pre-order-billet-water-pump-inlet-1

I'm guessing some off-the-shelf coolant sensor exists thats threaded, would just need to pour over some data sheets. I mean, everything else on the car is more/less Bosch so just look through their catalog.

You could just do a block off plate with one main threaded port for a hose nipple. From there the rest of the hoses can be plumbed from existing generic parts. Probably be messy though. Would also need to find a suitable threaded replacement for the stock sensor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqZmhZTjslk

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[dbratboy92]

I would like to install a temperature gauge, and would appreciate any information or advice from someone who has done it as to the type of gauge and where to put it. I'm thinking one of the hoses that attach to the water outlet pipe assembly.

I bought my car used from my sister who bought it new. She didn't take very good care of it. The first thing I did after starting to change the oil every few hundred miles to clean out the engine was to remove the Dexkill. Fortunately it looks like I got to it before it plugged everything up.

I did have the water outlet pipe assembly fail, but it was just a pinhole leak. I got a new one from the dealer for $47. The parts guy pretty much admitted it was a poor quality part. However, it is not simple. It would be extremely difficult to reproduce, probably impossible to do with a CNC mill. You would need to cast it, which would require a very complex mold. You would need to sell a lot of them in order to pay for the tooling and still make a profit. Hopefully getting rid of the Dexkill will make the new one last a bit longer.

I plan to keep my Sonic and maintain it properly (far more often than the book says) for as long as it lasts. I bought mine used for $6000, and believe I got my moneys worth. The original owner paid over $18000 cash for it. They lost $12,000 in 4 years. If you financed it, it would be a LOT more. I am 58, and have plenty of credit, I could finance a new Corvette if I wanted to. But I just have a problem paying huge amounts of money for cars that will be worth almost nothing in a few years. I wait till they depreciate then pay cash, and do not pay full coverage insurance. I save a fortune that way, and being a mechanic I can usually keep them going for quite some time. I can't imagine paying $30,000+ for a car, and financing it.

Keep in mine that putting a sensor outside the block or head is not going to tell you its overheating if there is no coolant in the car. Which is the #1 reason these cars overheat. That is the problem with the sensors already on the car. They are both insulated from the engine in metal housings. My head warped and the only sign the car gave me before it was too late was a check engine light. I later scanned it and saw the code was for coolant flow insufficient. I disregarded the light assuming it was another intake or turbo code. But I drove the car almost ten miles after the check engine light turned on before I had any signs of overheating and immediately stopped the car.


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