Clutch is Completely Gone

[barch88]

You believe in 25 years high end cars will still have gasoline engines and manual transmissions?

I suppose its possible but my opinion is by then electric will have taken over especially high end cars. Cars similar to the current Tesla lineup only with much much longer lasting batteries.


However, this is all irrelevant to why the ops clutch is shot after such a short time.

Of course high end cars will still have gasoline engines. The technology in the Tesla's is amazing, don't get me wrong. However, in our generation I highly doubt that we'd ever see powerful v8's be out of production and replaced with electric. You better believe Corvettes and them all will still be burning rubber and making noise. 25 years a lot will change, sure...but gas will probably still be king in cars for another 75-100 years. We'd be dead by the time we see gas pumps and stations shut down.

 

[Turbo Lover]

It's not necessarily his fault. The early clutches on six speed Accords/TLs had a bad pressure plate that would cause the clutch to wear prematurely because it was self-adjusting and likes to stop adjusting, meaning the clutch is slipping ever so slightly which causes the disc to wear out fast. Honda, and most automakers these days, put in some kind of hydraulic device that makes the clutch wear out faster still because it delays clutch engagement, which is the equivalent to riding the clutch pedal while shifting. This, in the name of reducing shift shock, not for drivetrain durability, but for around town comfort -___________________________-

There is a good chance OP burned out his clutch, but there is always a chance legitimate mechanical failure occurred that accelerated the wear prematurely. When the clutch was going out in my Accord, normal driving was perfectly fine. But as soon as I stomped the gas, it was total slippage. This continued for thousands of miles. The car never simply quit driving.

 

[ahtoxa]

For those wanting more information/more of my story here it is.

I've been driving for 10 years. All I've ever driven is a standard. Hate driving autos. That being said, I know how to drive a standard very well. I noticed the clutch slipping a little about a week and a half ago when I was on the highway. I'd be cruising around 50mph in 5th gear. I would press down the accelerator to speed up and noticed my rpm's acting similar to what I'd seen in other people's cars as their clutch was going out. I was really busy with work and drove it like this for about a week. Drove very conservatively during this time because I knew the clutch was slipping.

Made an appointment with Chevy last Saturday to take it in Tuesday morning to get it looked at because I thought it was odd that my clutch was slipping at 27,000. (Previous car was a Scion xB. Got totaled with 118,000 miles on it and the clutch still worked fine under the same driving habits.)

Monday night on my way home from work I was on the highway doing roughly 65mph in 6th and when I pushed down the accelerator the clutch started slipping way more than it ever had. I have a 10-15 minute drive home from work usually and by the time I got home I was barely able to get the car to move at all because clutch was completely burnt up (could smell it) and wouldn't grip.

Well, as mentioned earlier, even a well-worn out clutch would still move the car in first gear with the clutch out. There should be movement. If you went from slipping to no clutch at all in about a week, then there's something else wrong.

What exactly did the dealer do and say when you brought it in?

 

[thecasemaster]

Well, as mentioned earlier, even a well-worn out clutch would still move the car in first gear with the clutch out. There should be movement. If you went from slipping to no clutch at all in about a week, then there's something else wrong.

What exactly did the dealer do and say when you brought it in?

They said it was just normal "wear and tear" and are treated like brakes. One of the gm reps on the forum contacted them about it. I got a call from the dealership today saying that "after all the ruckus you created over at gm they decided they will cover half of the bill."

The bill included fixing the clutch and a sticking emergency brake. I was told the ebrake cable looked like it got melted by a careless welder. I told them (previous to speaking with gm) not to worry about the ebrake and that I would fix that myself. I'm not going to pay for them to fix the clutch though... That's their issue. It shouldn't be wearing out that fast.

I was reading the review of the 2012 sonic 1.4 hatch on Edmunds today. They had a lot of great things to say about the car. However, they also mentioned that the way the hydraulic clutch works on the sonic will cause the clutch to wear out faster than it should.

 

[thecasemaster]

Here's a screen shot from the review on Edmunds.

 

[ahtoxa]

I've not experienced this "runaway clutch-slipping stupidity" they've mentioned. E-throttles can be finicky, but I think their comment mostly applies to those coming from a cable throttle world.

Anyway, glad that your repair is covered. I'm still not sure that your issue was a simple wear and tear, if indeed we know the full story.

 

[laborsmith]

The Ferrari California has a 7-speed semi-automatic transmission but but I am not sure that would be considered to be a high-end offering.


Laborsmith

 

[mitdr774]

Ask them how they determined the clutch was bad before you let them take anything apart. As far as I am aware there is no way to inspect the clutch disk without removing the trans and pressure plate. If they have not done this, they have no way of knowing the clutch disk failed due to driver error and not something like a bad pressure plate or slave cylinder.

 

[Opticon]

I've owned half a dozen manual cars with clutches ranging from cable actuated sintered iron discs with 2500lb pressure plates to factory hydraulic girl clutches... and my Sonic is starting to get clutch chatter on occasion (depending on temp) at 23,000 miles.

The Sonic's throttle tip-in characteristics cause accelerated clutch wear as the driver draws out engagement to reduce a jerky start. I also notice the newly released performance catalog references 2012 model year having to upgrade to a 2013 "higher capacity" clutch when installing upgrades.

In other words, GM screwed up the throttle programming AND realized they put a weak clutch in the 2012 Sonics. I'll be asking them to cover some clutch work.

 

[ahtoxa]

Origin of clutch chatter is debatable. It was either laborsmith or maybe swordsmith that posted a theory that gently driven clutches tend to chatter more often and clutches need to be driven hard here and there to avoid it. General theory is that easy driving causes minor surface imperfections or uneven heating of the clutch material, which causes chatter by unevenly grabbing.

Hard to say for sure. I know that I've always driven my manuals quite gently with little slippage and I remember 4 of my last cars chattering, two of those cars were purchased new. Sonic also chatters once in a while but it goes away for a few months if I drive it hard briefly.

 

[Swordsmith]

I also notice the newly released performance catalog references 2012 model year having to upgrade to a 2013 "higher capacity" clutch when installing upgrades..

I may have this wrong, but I thought the reference was to installing a 2014 clutch? Otherwise I agree with your point.

 

[Opticon]

Slipping the clutch can heat check the flywheel and it's known that dust from a worn clutch disc can clog the disc segments and cause chatter. I can usually reduce the chatter by scraping up the mating surface with a number of strong and fast engagements. Either way I am certain that the Sonic is seeing accelerated clutch wear compared to my other cars and I'm blaming it on the runaway throttle tip-in and a weak pressure plate.

Depending on my financial situation when it goes I may just go with an aftermarket clutch and ask Trifecta to take a look at the throttle programming.

 

[sx sonic]

Slipping the clutch can heat check the flywheel and it's known that dust from a worn clutch disc can clog the disc segments and cause chatter. I can usually reduce the chatter by scraping up the mating surface with a number of strong and fast engagements. Either way I am certain that the Sonic is seeing accelerated clutch wear compared to my other cars and I'm blaming it on the runaway throttle tip-in and a weak pressure plate.

Depending on my financial situation when it goes I may just go with an aftermarket clutch and ask Trifecta to take a look at the throttle programming.

When I talked to TriVince about removing the throttle tip in and specifically about the "auto assist" that happens when releaseing the clutch, he said he doesn't mess with it. I'm not sure if that means he can't or won't remove it.

I agree that GM needs to do some corrections. I'm not sure how the auto assist tip in on clutch release made it thru testing, it has too short of duration to be useful and results in experienced drivers stalling often, doesn't help manual neophytes, and promotes clutch wear.

 

[ahtoxa]

For the "tip- in", are you guys talking about the ECU increasing engine revs at launch? I've not really noticed anything different about the Sonic's engagement or its electronic throttle as opposed to other cars I've owned with e-throttles.

 

[Preloader]

Sit and idle with the trans in neutral and the clutch pressed to the floor.

Then let the clutch out...... The revs will flare up. This is the throttle programming. The ECU senses the load, of the damn input shaft mind you, and jumps in to assist by adding fuel. Super lame.

 

[cheddarlump]

Sit and idle with the trans in neutral and the clutch pressed to the floor.

Then let the clutch out...... The revs will flare up. This is the throttle programming. The ECU senses the load, of the damn input shaft mind you, and jumps in to assist by adding fuel. Super lame.

Is this a 1.4 behavior? I guarantee you my 1.8L 5 speed does NOT do this. It will try to maintain the 900 RPM idle, but does not flare.

If/When my clutch fails, (I'm at 26k now) the first thing I'm throwing away is that giant obnoxious dual mass behemoth flywheel. I have NEVER liked the feeling of 26+ pound of spongy sprung steel when trying to heel/toe, or even modulate shifts when under moderate throttle. It's like they decided to make the car easier for 16 year old girls to learn on (and quieter at idle) by saddling it with that monstrous weight.. Yuck.

 

[Preloader]

I got rid of mine long ago. I have a 13lb aluminum fly. It could be why mine flares so bad, because the program is trying to keep a 23lb fly spinning, and doesn't realize the new fly has half the mass. But I do recall the stock fly flaring as well.

The revs to drop back down quicker with the lighter fly though. Because less rotational inertia.

 

[ahtoxa]

Sit and idle with the trans in neutral and the clutch pressed to the floor.

Then let the clutch out...... The revs will flare up. This is the throttle programming. The ECU senses the load, of the damn input shaft mind you, and jumps in to assist by adding fuel. Super lame.

I've noticed it but the jump is rather small. Most e-throttle programming will compensage for dropping revs by giving throttle.

Example is my old 2006 LS2 GTO. Set handbrake, and start slowly releasing clutch with no throttle. The ECU will really play hardball to keep the revs up to where the car would squat and strain against the handbrake. Quickly floor the clutch and watch the revs spike to 1500 or so. I've not heard folks on the forum thinking that this behavior would reduce clutch life. Perhaps this is rather different from the Sonic.

 

[Opticon]

Well the dynamic changes a bit when the engine has V8 torque and the clutch engagement is more positive. But when you're trying to peddle that sweet spot between jerking forward and stalling a 1.4 liter, the ECU nullifying your throttle input is a problem.

And you can forget smooth starts altogether if the AC compressor is messing with you.

 

[Preloader]

Magnify that by a Stage 4 clutch and your living in my world. In critical intersection launch scenarios, I will often mute my stereo to play my revs by ear.