my car falls on its face!

[dbarrett231]

So over the weekend there was a car meet at a track here no times or anything we didn’t have access to all that we are just allowed to use the track aha. I ended up going against a new Mazda Miata and a newer civic si during the night. well the Miata was stock and barely beat my rs (I’m tuned, intake, bypass valve mod, and custom 2.5 in straight pipe that a local shop built for me) the si also beat me. But I was ahead of both of them until I shifted into 3rd gear then it just seems like the car falls on its face and doesn’t really want to try hard. Anyone have any tips to help this problem? Also at what rpm on the stock gauge should I be shifting I really don’t think that gauge actually keeps up with the motor on these cars.

If this is not the correct area for this post please move it thank you.

 

[Obviously Tyler]

That's odd. I have a turbo LTZ and mine seems to pull the hardest in 3rd gear. I'm not surprised you're losing to an Si or a Miata though. Sonics aren't sports cars. I get stomped by Si's all the time..

 

[Hulty]

Port your manifold by removing the air dams, from what I've read that'll make it push hard all the way to redline.

 

[dbarrett231]

That's odd. I have a turbo LTZ and mine seems to pull the hardest in 3rd gear. I'm not surprised you're losing to an Si or a Miata though. Sonics aren't sports cars. I get stomped by Si's all the time..

honestly i think there is something wrong with my tune. my buddy has a lt 1.4 with just an intake and he will pull on me when im in 3rd. but everytime i data log it they said it looks good

 

[Hulty]

Tell me about it, I'm in the same boat of giving $500 to BNR/Trifecta(as well as others) and I have gotten very little customer support. I'm beginning to get the opinion that unless you're part of the SOF "in crowd" you get told that you're on your own.

 

[Blue Moon Sonic]

Do you have the auto or manual in your sonic?

 

[ahtoxa]

... makes me wonder why even throw money away on mods.

opcorn:

 

[dbarrett231]

Do you have the auto or manual in your sonic?

I have the manual


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[Swordsmith]

THe stock RPM gauge has been shown to be inaccurate for the kind of split second timing you are trying to accomplish, but that shouldn't lead to a problem isolated in a single gear; you should be shifting too late every gear if you are relying on it.

As for when is "too late" that seems to vary a lot car to car, depending on mods, some dyno sheets show the car peaking in power at around 4.5K, others, significantly higher. I guess you would want to shift about a half second before the gauge gets around to telling you you're where you wanted to shift... there's a lag in the system so it's not telling you where you are, it's telling you where you were a half second ago. For normal driving this makes no difference but when your RPM is changing rapidly and you want to shift at the exact right point, well...ick.

How about putting in your own aftermarket RPM gauge? Several threads on it here, including one where the guy was also going to put lights in at his desired shift point (don't remember if that ever got done)

 

[Luv2xlr8]

Would it be because he has an RS and and his friend has an LT so the fear ratios have something to do with it as well?

 

[dbarrett231]

The RS gear ratio should be able to pull an lt I believe but I could be wrong


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[frankc5r]

Put an Ultragauge or Dashboss on it and look at delivered torque and knock retard as well as boost. Can't guess to find a problem. Get some good data , then u will be able to see where u are losing performance.
You can easily switch the gauges to a similar car to see if your car is really different and if so, where it is different.
frank

 

[meluskig]

something is wrong with your car I pulled my buddies 2011 malibu ez and I pull cars on the daily including civic si.

 

[Victory Red RS]

Would it be because he has an RS and and his friend has an LT so the fear ratios have something to do with it as well?

That's right people "fear" the RS more!

 

[sx sonic]

That's odd. I have a turbo LTZ and mine seems to pull the hardest in 3rd gear. I'm not surprised you're losing to an Si or a Miata though. Sonics aren't sports cars. I get stomped by Si's all the time..

Newer SIs are about 3000 lbs and have around 175hp/150 tq. Far from sports car.

With a tune we weigh less, have 160hp and 210tq with a way broader spread of power. Should be close to favoring the Sonic.

Mines at 2700 lbs, 175hp and 215 tq. I walk dem Honda's errday. Lol.


Op if you have an UltraGauge monitor knock and boost psi as another member suggested. Somethings off as the car shouldnt just give up the ghost in one gear.



Also people- something to keep in mind about the tach. While it has been proven to lag, it's only under certain conditions and exacerbated with certain variables.

Neutral, then 1st, then 2nd allow the engine to wind up the quickest. Thus they would allow for the greatest % of tach error. The higher the gear the slower the engine can accelerate and the easier it is for the tach to keep up (or more accurately the circuit and processor that drives the tach).

Things that increase the rate at which the engine accelerates will exacerbate the error. These would include a lightweight clutch and a tune.


Just throwing that out there since it appears that some people think a 500 rpm lag in 1st equals a 500rpm lag in all gears... That is definitely not the case.

Also the large lag that was brought to our attention was on a sonic making alot more power than stock and with a lightweight clutch, and shorter gearing.

 

[dbarrett231]

Newer SIs are about 3000 lbs and have around 175hp/150 tq. Far from sports car.

With a tune we weigh less, have 160hp and 210tq with a way broader spread of power. Should be close to favoring the Sonic.

Mines at 2700 lbs, 175hp and 215 tq. I walk dem Honda's errday. Lol.


Op if you have an UltraGauge monitor knock and boost psi as another member suggested. Somethings off as the car shouldnt just give up the ghost in one gear.



Also people- something to keep in mind about the tach. While it has been proven to lag, it's only under certain conditions and exacerbated with certain variables.

Neutral, then 1st, then 2nd allow the engine to wind up the quickest. Thus they would allow for the greatest % of tach error. The higher the gear the slower the engine can accelerate and the easier it is for the tach to keep up (or more accurately the circuit and processor that drives the tach).

Things that increase the rate at which the engine accelerates will exacerbate the error. These would include a lightweight clutch and a tune.


Just throwing that out there since it appears that some people think a 500 rpm lag in 1st equals a 500rpm lag in all gears... That is definitely not the case.

Also the large lag that was brought to our attention was on a sonic making alot more power than stock and with a lightweight clutch, and shorter gearing.

I have a boost gauge right now and my boost falls off in 3rd from 19 psi to like 9 and every time I datalog it they say everything looks good.


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[SonicBoy24]

I have a boost gauge right now and my boost falls off in 3rd from 19 psi to like 9 and every time I datalog it they say everything looks good.


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There's your problem.

You need to bring that point to their attention.
Obviously, that shouldn't happen.

Ask them to repeat back you you what the log says your boost pressure is through the gears and if they still give you the "ok" after they look at that.

 

[Maddmatts]

Check to see if the boost pressure drops in other gears. And if it does, at what RPM it begins to go. The gearing might be keeping you from feeling the loss in 1st and 2nd.

Try doing MPFab's bypass-the-bypass mod if you haven't already. It will eliminate that solenoid as a potential source of leakage should it be misbehaving.

 

[dbarrett231]

Check to see if the boost pressure drops in other gears. And if it does, at what RPM it begins to go. The gearing might be keeping you from feeling the loss in 1st and 2nd.



Try doing MPFab's bypass-the-bypass mod if you haven't already. It will eliminate that solenoid as a potential source of leakage should it be misbehaving.

I did it already but I'm gonna port the intake manifold tomorrow so I'll see what that does


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[Scot]

So over the weekend there was a car meet at a track here no times or anything we didn’t have access to all that we are just allowed to use the track aha. I ended up going against a new Mazda Miata and a newer civic si during the night. well the Miata was stock and barely beat my rs (I’m tuned, intake, bypass valve mod, and custom 2.5 in straight pipe that a local shop built for me) the si also beat me. But I was ahead of both of them until I shifted into 3rd gear then it just seems like the car falls on its face and doesn’t really want to try hard. Anyone have any tips to help this problem? Also at what rpm on the stock gauge should I be shifting I really don’t think that gauge actually keeps up with the motor on these cars.

If this is not the correct area for this post please move it thank you.

I know exactly what happened - it is your tune and a combination of your fuel's octane rating.

Our ECU has a calibration that limits total airflow into the engine based on any knock it sees. This is a safety measure, as enough spark retard will overspeed your turbo and could cause a chain-reaction failure.

So, by the time you hit third gear, you've built up enough heat to generate some knock, and your ECU is closing your throttle to limit the airflow. I've seen this on my car and am very familiar with it.