Recently developed 3rd gear troubles

[$ub$onic]

Good job

 

[Swordsmith]

Update, the problem is much less pronounced, but still present, and more annoyingly is less predictable than I thought. The glue-y thing hasn't returned, I felt it a total of three times over a four day period, and as I said earlier, no pattern to it that I could detect. Shifting into third though usually works, but randomly grinds a little when doing so, not every time at higher speeds, and sometimes at lower than 40, as low as 25. Maybe one time in ten. When it does grind, it does so very briefly.

I think it does so often enough that a service department will be able to find it, but I know this is the worst kind of problem; one that hides itself.

I'm not in a huge rush to get it looked at since I assume I'll lose the car for several days at least, and I'd rather not be driving my RWD F150 in this weather (or, well, ever frankly. Sonic addicted). I'll schedule something though since it sounds like general consensus is it is probably not the clutch and it sounds like good chance it will be warranty covered, so I can have Chevy professionals look at it rather than just me and my local shade tree mechanic.

 

[Jeraime1741]

Clutch would be an issue in all gears. Could be a bad synchro, linkage is out of adjustment, or something in the trans is binding, like a shifter fork. The only way you will get a definitive answer is by tearing in to it.

So that actually started happening to me in my S10. I would NLS every gear.and i found out that by me sometimes slightly missing and still going in the gear there was a plastic cuplike guide for my gears on top of my tranny and a piece snapped next to a bolt and it was loose causing my shifter to be all out of wack. Replaced it with a billet aluminum one and never looked back. I dont think the sonic has the exact same thing due to the application but im sure it has something to act in the same nature.

 

[Chevrolet Customer Care]

Update, the problem is much less pronounced, but still present, and more annoyingly is less predictable than I thought. The glue-y thing hasn't returned, I felt it a total of three times over a four day period, and as I said earlier, no pattern to it that I could detect. Shifting into third though usually works, but randomly grinds a little when doing so, not every time at higher speeds, and sometimes at lower than 40, as low as 25. Maybe one time in ten. When it does grind, it does so very briefly.

I think it does so often enough that a service department will be able to find it, but I know this is the worst kind of problem; one that hides itself.

I'm not in a huge rush to get it looked at since I assume I'll lose the car for several days at least, and I'd rather not be driving my RWD F150 in this weather (or, well, ever frankly. Sonic addicted). I'll schedule something though since it sounds like general consensus is it is probably not the clutch and it sounds like good chance it will be warranty covered, so I can have Chevy professionals look at it rather than just me and my local shade tree mechanic.

Swordsmith,

Hopefully you won't be without your Sonic for too long while it's being serviced. Keep us updated on the outcome.

Vanessa
GM Customer Service

 

[Swordsmith]

Another update, a little complicated.

My local service center is part of a dealership that spans two local towns. I spoke to the local service manager who agreed that problems with parts that Chevy installed and that weren't obviously directly caused by my mods would still be under warranty. However, when I tried to take the shifting issue in, I was told that their transmission guy is out on disability and I would have to go to the sister town.

Took it in this morning, called in a few hours later, and here's the result. The problem is definitely in the transmission itself, and due to my modifications will not be covered by the warranty.

I'm surprised, after the conversations here, that they think it is an actual transmission problem rather than something to do with the shifter linkage or somewhere in that area.

I'm disappointed, again after conversations both here and with professional mechanics, to hear that they think that if it is the transmission itself, that it would be something caused by my mods and thus not covered. I also suspect that if I'd been able to use my local guys, who I've seen several times and who are amused by the mods, that it might have been covered after all.

Also, as TMO mentioned, that there are currently no transmissions to be had, could be days, could be a month or more. There are a LOT of Sonics out there on the road, the car's been in service more than a year, and I'd think there would be transmissions in a parts bin somewhere in the US waiting for the first breakdowns to occur, covered or no.

I am not angry or upset about this, and in fact will cop to the fact that it certainly could be my fault. But I'd have been happier if it was covered, and may seek a second opinion or two, as well as shop around to see if I can get the replace done cheaper somewhere else if it's not going to be covered.

 

[ThatTmoGuy]

Well if you end up replacing the trans on your own dime then I would say it's time for some serious upgrades! Find a Pro who thinks he can help and ask him questions until his ears bleed.

 

[Foxbox]

What modifications did you have on the car when you took it in?

 

[Swordsmith]

Talking to the transmission guy, he says that the problem is, and I quote

"the third gear blocking rings sychronizer is loose"

If this was a warranty covered repair they would simply replace the entire transmission, but under the circumstances he is going to see if he has or can get the tools to open it up and fix the problem instead.

Trouble being, with new models it is sometimes impossible to get the tools from GM to get into the transmission and work on it!

On a side note I suggested if I was going to pay for a whole new transmission, that I would like the RS one. Service manager got a little twitchy over this idea, and was unable to determine whether the RS tranny would actually fit. Me, I expect any mechanic to perk right up when someone suggests doing crazy stuff like this, but maybe that's not how everyone feels.

Mods list in my sig, which I usually omit because it's annoyingly long:

 

[Foxbox]

Mods list in my sig, which I usually omit because it's annoyingly long:

Ah okay, I figured you may have removed a few mods to better your chances at having them cover it.

 

[Eric Smit]

go get a different one that can handle more power.


-Eric Smit

 

[ThatTmoGuy]

call up GMPD see if they have one in stock (I would get the regular Sonic trans not the RS because the shorter gears would suck IMHO) swap it out so your car is in perfect working order and send the trashed one to a trans guy and have him hook that SOB up. one more swap to get the beef cake trans in then sell off the "new" trans to someone else.

 

[lambertsonic]

There has to be a used tranny somewhere in a wreck yard . Good luck with everything , keep us updated on price and all .

 

[dvn]

call up GMPD see if they have one in stock (I would get the regular Sonic trans not the RS because the shorter gears would suck IMHO) swap it out so your car is in perfect working order and send the trashed one to a trans guy and have him hook that SOB up. one more swap to get the beef cake trans in then sell off the "new" trans to someone else.

I think if I had an RS, I would get some nice light 18's with a little taller tire than stock. This would fill the wheel gap without lowering and stretch out the gearing a bit. Then just have Vince adjust the ECU accordingly.

 

[jchasp59]

In the past week or so, I've developed some transmission troubles.

Primary problem, going into 3rd at relatively high speed, I get a grinding noise and some difficultly shifting into the gear. Seems to develop at around 40, doesn't matter if I'm coming out of 2nd or out of 4th, 5th, or 6th. Slower than 40 (or maybe 38) its no problem, above 40 (or maybe as high as 42), grinding. Clutch pedal is firmly on the floor for this, and it doesn't happen in any other gear.

(edit to add) Note that I go into 3rd from 2nd at speeds as low as 25 to as high as 56, and I go into 3rd from higher gears at speeds as high as 75, in the normal course of events. Been doing so for months, this problem is a very recent development.

Second problem, three separate instances, gearshift has gone all glue-y, doesn't want to move, doesn't want to go in any gear. Push it back and forth (still glue-y) in neutral and it reluctantly loosens up and then will go into gear, where it may or may not remain glue-y for another shift or so, at any rate it gradually loosens back up to it's good old smooth as silk feel. Then it's good for days, maybe... it hasn't happened much and hasn't been happening for long, so I don't have a good sample size.

I haven't noticed any pattern to this latter behavior, it isn't happening after a 3rd gear grind, it isn't happening only when first starting out, or at any given speed; well maybe the latter, it is happening at city/suburb speeds, but of course that's where most shifting happens.

Any ideas as to what this is likely to be would be appreciated; I have an aftermarket clutch, my local Chevy dealership would be happy to cover a new transmission or monkey with the shifter linkages if the fault is there somewhere but not a new clutch or if the problem was caused by the clutch.

On the one hand it doesn't strike me as a clutch problem since the main issue is specific to one particular gear. On the other hand, the "glue" problem is universal when it happens, and also the 3rd gear problem sounds and feels like the clutch isn't engaged, even though it is certainly all the way on the floor. Reading some of the other reported shifting problems, the shifter linkages is something I hadn't even considered but would be my favorite since there's very little chance problems there were caused by my clutch.

I'm having trouble with a wiring harness hitting/getting tangled in the shift linkage that causes me to miss shifts, and shift quality feels 'glue-y', as you describe. This thick section of the wiring harness runs transversly behind the engine and directly over the shift linkage on the transmission. And though it is attached to every one of it's fastener's, it still hangs too low. After yet another frustrating trip to the dealerships (they didn't even open the hood) I raised the hood and asked a friend to shift through the gears while I watched. The linkage must push the wiring harness out of the way, and sometimes the wiring harness gets caught on the shift linkage. This entanglement gets worse when the engine is idling (the harness moves more since the engine is moving a bit.) I'm sure the movement of the wiring harness is even worse when the car is in motion, hitting bumps, etc.
This problem is causing the insulation on the wiring harnes to wear very quickly where it contacts the shift linkage. Have pointed this out to the dealerships to no avail.
When I've returned to the dealerships, they only, "look in the computer" for a TSB, say that there's never been a problem, and do nothing (even though they can see the wear on the wiring harness.)
Guess I'm going to have to carry a fire extingisher and wait for a catastrophic failure before GM takes action on this problem.
Good luck.

 

[dvn]

I'm having trouble with a wiring harness hitting/getting tangled in the shift linkage that causes me to miss shifts, and shift quality feels 'glue-y', as you describe. This thick section of the wiring harness runs transversly behind the engine and directly over the shift linkage on the transmission. And though it is attached to every one of it's fastener's, it still hangs too low. After yet another frustrating trip to the dealerships (they didn't even open the hood) I raised the hood and asked a friend to shift through the gears while I watched. The linkage must push the wiring harness out of the way, and sometimes the wiring harness gets caught on the shift linkage. This entanglement gets worse when the engine is idling (the harness moves more since the engine is moving a bit.) I'm sure the movement of the wiring harness is even worse when the car is in motion, hitting bumps, etc.
This problem is causing the insulation on the wiring harnes to wear very quickly where it contacts the shift linkage. Have pointed this out to the dealerships to no avail.
When I've returned to the dealerships, they only, "look in the computer" for a TSB, say that there's never been a problem, and do nothing (even though they can see the wear on the wiring harness.)
Guess I'm going to have to carry a fire extingisher and wait for a catastrophic failure before GM takes action on this problem.
Good luck.

Why don't you just move the harness yourself instead of waiting for your car to burn up?

 

[Swordsmith]

So I was having some problems with the experimental clutch, got it swapped for a stage 4 version of the same, hoping this might be the root of the transmission problems.

A first it seemed like this might have been the answer, no immediate problems with third. But the original problem was sporadic, unpredictable.

After puting around 40 miles in, I suddenly popped out of third. Didn't repeat for another 10 miles maybe, but then it did it again, and again, and now is doing it pretty much every time.

Temporary fix, don't use third. Plenty of overlap between the gears, just rev 2nd higher and use 4th lower.

Why is it troubles always show up Saturday night, longest time before being able to call a mechanic?

Since this most recent problem has been documented in another thread here, I'm hoping for a different answer from the Chevy service guys about whether it's covered under warranty.

 

[Eric Smit]

So I was having some problems with the experimental clutch, got it swapped for a stage 4 version of the same, hoping this might be the root of the transmission problems.

A first it seemed like this might have been the answer, no immediate problems with third. But the original problem was sporadic, unpredictable.

After puting around 40 miles in, I suddenly popped out of third. Didn't repeat for another 10 miles maybe, but then it did it again, and again, and now is doing it pretty much every time.

Temporary fix, don't use third. Plenty of overlap between the gears, just rev 2nd higher and use 4th lower.

Why is it troubles always show up Saturday night, longest time before being able to call a mechanic?

Since this most recent problem has been documented in another thread here, I'm hoping for a different answer from the Chevy service guys about whether it's covered under warranty.

did you replace your transmission yet?

 

[Preloader]

I just posted this in the other 3rd gear thread, but it actually is a more relative response to the question Eric just offered.


I hate to bear bad news, but with the red pill torq numbers, this will likely happen to the next trans you install as well. The realm has been entered where it will not be entirely a bad idea to collect spare transaxles for swap outs when they go bad.

Trendsetting is unfortunately costly in this case.

 

[ThatTmoGuy]

From what the tech told me about it popping out of gears is that the trans shifter tower was loose and thus allowed it pop out gears. If you look right below the throttle body you can see the tower, I would go check it out if I was you and see I'd you can adjust it a bit.

 

[Swordsmith]

Went to my local dealership and was advised they might or might not cover the transmission, since it had developed this new problem. They printed out a list of possible causes and had us check it all out, we not only checked everything on the list but also pulled all controls and manipulated the transmission manually, it still pops out of gear in third (and only in third). Took it in to dealer who put someone in the car to test drive it with me in passenger seat, and he verified that it was actually having the problem described, and tested out a few more theories they'd printed out.

Then they thought about it for yet another day, and decided yes, it's not my fault despite the mods, and it's covered. Since GM hasn't released the tools to pull the transmission itself apart, and since GM is also not selling any of the parts, they are going to replace the whole thing.

So that's on order now and should show up next Tuesday more or less.

Meanwhile, I have a used transmission sitting in my yard, bought it cheap off Ebay since it sounded like Chevy wasn't going to cover the repair... ah well, I'll probably need another one eventually, maybe we can figure out how to pull this one apart and beef it up!