Second gear grinding & remedy

[ChrisJ]

That's interesting.
When I worked for Bosch repairing power tools Warranty work was loved. It meant no estimates, no waiting for approval, just fix it, make it like new and get it out the door.

I'd say warranty repairs got the same treatment, if not a hair more than paid repairs, being paid repairs meant trying not to piss the customer off with minor issues. You also wanted a customer to like their fairly new product.

Of course it seems Bosch has a different view of customers. They always told us "once you loose a customer it's nearly impossible to get them back".
GM overall doesn't seem to feel that way, or if they do they don't show it well.

 

[sonicboost14]

Seems weird but mine would grind with a quick shift over 4.5k. I'm at 650miles and I've been baby shifting it. Now the grinding is almost gone with quick shifts. My Spark did it for the first couple thousand miles then went away. I think the transmission just needs to wear in.

 

[ScarabEpic22]

I think the temps are playing a part in this (75-90F the last few days), but after I installed a TTR solid motor mount I havent been able to make my RS grind. Multiple 1-2 WOT quick shifts and I even got over 6k for one without issue.

FWIW, Id highly recommend a TTR trans mount for shift feel. I rode in and drove NewZJ (John)'s LTZ and the trans mount makes a big difference without adding too much vibration. The TTR engine mount helps a bunch too, but it adds a ton of vibration to the car.

 

[klystron]

All trans bolts are back in after having them get it on the rack to bleed the hydraulic system again. They tried to give it back to me again with the clutch not fully disengaging on the floor.

The new trans is incredibly notchy, and has blocked me from shifting into second a few times at 3k RPMs, and third has already had a nice crunch. Already checked shift cables, they're in alignment.

I have a feeling Chevy is about to eat this car. I live in FL where today the car was showing 107*F ambient temps. The only times I've really had an issue with the trans are when it's >90* outside.

Dustin sorry to be slow in responding to you. I've been swamped at work. Your experience is similar to mine. I didn't have a clutch problem, but the dealer did forget to put oil in the transmission. This caused me to get stranded 20 miles from home waiting for a tow-truck to take the car 50 miles back to the dealer. My 3rd transmission is incredibly notchy as well. I'd say 30-40% of the time I cannot get it to downshift from 3rd into 2nd. It's actually unsafe when I need to accelerate and wind up going nowhere.

At least you had a good time fishing!

 

[ChrisJ]

Dustin sorry to be slow in responding to you. I've been swamped at work. Your experience is similar to mine. I didn't have a clutch problem, but the dealer did forget to put oil in the transmission. This caused me to get stranded 20 miles from home waiting for a tow-truck to take the car 50 miles back to the dealer. My 3rd transmission is incredibly notchy as well. I'd say 30-40% of the time I cannot get it to downshift from 3rd into 2nd. It's actually unsafe when I need to accelerate and wind up going nowhere.

At least you had a good time fishing!

Learn how to double clutch. Shift into neutral, let clutch up, rev engine up to the rpm it will be in, or a bit higher when you downshift, step on clutch, downshift into gear. If you did it right, it will slide right into gear like butter every time. The idea is to get the gears spinning at a matching speed before you push the clutch back in.

No, this isn't how it should be, and yes it is B.S. but it should help you greatly being you're in this sh*tty spot right now.

 

[Tango71]

Well this has been happening more and more on my Sonic. I didn't think anything of it when it was new as I got the occasional slight crunch but its getting worse and worse. I had it in yesterday and they couldn't replicate the issue. The tech noticed that there is a clunk going in to second and that its the shifter ball assembly which he apparently greased. The shifter still clunks which is no big issue to me but the transmission does also grind in to second.

I asked about the GM synchromesh and they said that it will cost me if they put it in and that it will also void my warranty...what a load of bull!
The technician also said that the transmission just has to "wear in" I'm not sure what world he is from but usually when something is wearing and its becoming becoming apparently worse it means that its going to FAIL not get better. But what do I know? I'm just a former Military aviation systems technician and worked on jet aircraft for five years, oh and before that I used to build Honda track cars as a hobby and cash on the side...For the record we used GM synchromesh to stop the notorious 2nd to 3rd Honda crunch.

So what do I do? Do I risk it and replace it on my own or do I keep girding gears till the transmission gives up the ghost and I get a new one under warranty? I do a lot of spirited merging as I live in areas where you have to go from 0-70mph (0-120kph) fairly quickly and often, always having to go from on ramp to highway and back several times a day with other crazy drivers that are going well over the limit. This is when I notice it most. I gave noticed it during normal city driving when I needed to keep up on 4 lane roads going light to light.

 

[Dustin]

Well this has been happening more and more on my Sonic. I didn't think anything of it when it was new as I got the occasional slight crunch but its getting worse and worse. I had it in yesterday and they couldn't replicate the issue. The tech noticed that there is a clunk going in to second and that its the shifter ball assembly which he apparently greased. The shifter still clunks which is no big issue to me but the transmission does also grind in to second.

I asked about the GM synchromesh and they said that it will cost me if they put it in and that it will also void my warranty...what a load of bull!
The technician also said that the transmission just has to "wear in" I'm not sure what world he is from but usually when something is wearing and its becoming becoming apparently worse it means that its going to FAIL not get better. But what do I know? I'm just a former Military aviation systems technician and worked on jet aircraft for five years, oh and before that I used to build Honda track cars as a hobby and cash on the side...For the record we used GM synchromesh to stop the notorious 2nd to 3rd Honda crunch.

So what do I do? Do I risk it and replace it on my own or do I keep girding gears till the transmission gives up the ghost and I get a new one under warranty? I do a lot of spirited merging as I live in areas where you have to go from 0-70mph (0-120kph) fairly quickly and often, always having to go from on ramp to highway and back several times a day with other crazy drivers that are going well over the limit. This is when I notice it most. I gave noticed it during normal city driving when I needed to keep up on 4 lane roads going light to light.

From my experience, you'll have to have a tech ride with you and show them the problems. GM techs seem to work with the sense that the customer has no idea how these things work.

How many miles are on your car? I took mine in at 7k, 12k, and finally had it replaced at 16k miles. I haven't put 1000 miles on it with the new trans, but it's already as bad as the old one.

 

[rdss]

The thread has been cleaned up to prior to the start of the all the issues. Please keep this thread on topic and any arguments or disagreements can be settled privately without bringing it publicly in a post. The first offenders to start it up again will be given a 7 day ban without any questions asked.

 

[NR552]

Learn how to double clutch. Shift into neutral, let clutch up, rev engine up to the rpm it will be in, or a bit higher when you downshift, step on clutch, downshift into gear. If you did it right, it will slide right into gear like butter every time. The idea is to get the gears spinning at a matching speed before you push the clutch back in.

No, this isn't how it should be, and yes it is B.S. but it should help you greatly being you're in this sh*tty spot right now.

I learned to drive that way with a 73 911T Porsche with bad 2nd gear syncros. I still drive that way with my 2013 Sonic RS, and now our 2014 Cruze ECO as well. It helps a ton, plus Amsoil syncromesh in my 2013 Sonic RS has all but ended the 2nd gear grind. I slowed my shifting speed, and give the transmission about 3 miles to warm up (in our SoCal weather) before you go hard shifting (I get a tad of gear 'tap' when it goes into 2nd when I first start out in the morning. After 2-3 lights of shifting, it's perfect.)

 

[Scot]

I learned to drive that way with a 73 911T Porsche with bad 2nd gear syncros. I still drive that way with my 2013 Sonic RS, and now our 2014 Cruze ECO as well. It helps a ton, plus Amsoil syncromesh in my 2013 Sonic RS has all but ended the 2nd gear grind. I slowed my shifting speed, and give the transmission about 3 miles to warm up (in our SoCal weather) before you go hard shifting (I get a tad of gear 'tap' when it goes into 2nd when I first start out in the morning. After 2-3 lights of shifting, it's perfect.)

Yeah - that's why I haven't tried a "traditional" weight gear lube in my transmission - it gets a bit colder here in Michigan.

 

[xtremerevolution]

At least in the Cruze, GM is now on the third transmission fluid revision in a transmission that, with the exception of the absence of a level plug, is otherwise unmodified. Bearing improvements may have occurred within those years, but reports of a dozen or so whiny bearings on CruzeTalk (and consequent transmission replacements) would indicate otherwise.

It would be interesting to see the differences in those transmission fluids. GM clearly acknowledged that the first two part numbers were not suitable, which may be in line with observations of rapid shearing in at least the first two revisions.

NR552's observation is pretty much spot on with viscosity being of consequence. The manuals and discussions I've read overseas indicate that an SAE 85 gear weight is appropriate, but the OE fluid in our transmissions appears to be far thinner than that. One of those transmission fluids was referred to as Castrol BOT 303, which has an operating 100C cSt kinematic viscosity of 6.2. On the SAE gear weight scale, this is a 75W, which is the thinnest the scale goes down to. It has a similar viscosity to DEX6 ATF, which has a 100C viscosity of ~6.0, give or take.

The fact that aftermarket fluids such as AMSOIL's synchromesh mentioned above "all but ended the 2nd gear grind" with a far higher viscosity of 9.7 leads me to believe that GM had other things in mind when they chose this fluid for this transmission. Fuel economy comes to mind, but with the sheer number of vehicles that have this problem on one of those OE fluids and the sheer number of 1-2 shift grinds alleviated with an SAE 80W, 85W, or SAE 90 gear lube, one can only assume that the incorrect viscosity was used.

As with my opening statement, it would be interesting to see just what GM's latest and greatest secret sauce is for this transmission. My money is on an increase in viscosity over BOT 303. Reports of increasingly difficult cold shifting also indicates at best a petroleum base with a gradually depleting viscosity index additive package.

 

[Preloader]

So, just to bring this thread back into alignment, we found long ago that if you do the shifter cable alignment via the bulletin posted waaaaaay back in this thread, and drain and refill your m32 with 2.5 qts of a heavier synthetic such as Redline GL 4 75w-90, or equivalent, the 2nd gear grind should be remedied.

 

[Eric Smit]

So, just to bring this thread back into alignment, we found long ago that if you do the shifter cable alignment via the bulletin posted waaaaaay back in this thread, and drain and refill your m32 with 2.5 qts of a heavier synthetic such as Redline GL 4 75w-90, or equivalent, the 2nd gear grind should be remedied.

you still have the scans of the bulletin? I can update the first post.

 

[Preloader]

Yeah. Excuse the poor quality, but that is what the dealer gave me, I had to hand pen in the faded print.

 

[krakenredbeard]

This pretty much remedied the grind for me least I thought so I did actually get the grind a few days ago under some pulls I was doing but it wasn't near as bad and only happened that one time and I tried to make it happen again.

I will be doing fluid this weekend and I'll post back with my thoughts as soon as I know something more.


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[Preloader]

The fluid refill is super easy and you won't be disappointed. The drain plug is a 10mm allen, and the top fill plug is 8mm allen. It helps to have a long skinny funnel on hand.

 

[krakenredbeard]

Appreciate the advice. Hopefully getting to it this weekend.


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[Scot]

IIRC, there's a difference between the adjustment of the shifter cables between 12 and 13+

 

[Preloader]

There is definitely a difference in the shifter arm between the '12 and '13+.

Maybe someone with a '13+ can confirm if the adjustment matches the '12 bulletin.

 

[krakenredbeard]

I have a 14 used the adjustment bulletin just fine.


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